Home Forums General Karting Discussion WKA annual meeting

This topic contains 34 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  George Sunderland 3 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #36385

    Kerry Yunck
    Participant

    Any news on the annual meeting ? Anyone on the board booted out? Anyone new in ? Don’t know much about the sprint stuff but the Enduro series needs some serious help.

  • #36394

    Mark Erpelding
    Participant

    WKA – Where’s Karts At…..

    We spend our money on Racin, Whiskey and Women.... The rest we waste....

  • #36396

    Kerry Matthews
    Participant

    Gene Davis posted in the Road Racing section that he resigned his positions at WKA effective 10/31/14.

  • #36443

    Anonymous

    I believe some big changes are coming. . .

  • #36453

    David Cole
    Keymaster

    We are working on gathering information as we speak, as we have talked to a few sources regarding action at the recent meeting this weekend.

    David Cole - EKN Managing Editor

  • #36489

    John Horn
    Participant

    So i am wondering if WKA talked about the price of the entries at the meeting?  I just opened up the email, and looked at the entry blank and i am really shocked at the price increase over last year.

  • #36493

    David Cole
    Keymaster

    2014 Price at finale at New Castle

    Practice: $55
    Race: $85 x 2= $170

    Total = $225

    If you are in a trophy class, it is only $15 more. If you are in the Pro classes, it is always going to be more, as now you are racing for money and some of it has to come from the entry fee.

    David Cole - EKN Managing Editor

  • #36503

    John Horn
    Participant

    David, take into account that if you race 2 classes, you are now effectively paying for practice twice.  So the price of admission for us has risen quite a bit more.

  • #36523

    David Cole
    Keymaster

    I agree. Instead of paying for a driver to practice, now racers are going to have to pay to practice for each class.

    David Cole - EKN Managing Editor

  • #36548

    patrick j slattery
    Participant

    It was 75.00 if you pre paid early.  Last year it would have been about $200 for one class with practice. This year $240.00.  If you raced two classes, which many do, last year would have been $350, for 2015 it will be $480.

    That is a 38% increase for racers wanting to run 2 classes.  WOW.  That is a great business model for a Series that is losing customers by the dozens over the past two years.

     

    Pat

     

  • #36591

    John Horn
    Participant

    I’m actually at 555 for entry for pro and x30, then 2 pit spots at 55 each. And 2 reserved number at 25 each.

    So that’s 715 and I haven’t hit the track yet.  I will have to look but I think last year we were around 510 or 520 total.  That’s quite a jump

     

  • #36608

    Anonymous

    Keep in mind, too, John, that your $520 from last year got you 4 shots at a trophy for the weekend….  this year you will have 2 chances…

  • #36638

    John Horn
    Participant

    Tim..I am sure the driving will be super clean in the Pro final though..so chances are great.

     

  • #36639

    Tim Koyen
    Participant

    On the flip side, at least you get a chance to race for a purse now.  I wonder if there will still be any trophies in those classes, or just $$.

    I can’t see where its worthwhile to bother paying to reserve a number.

    Based on John’s numbers, its getting close to what you’d pay to run a Pro class at USPKS, and you there you get everything above, plus more laps, 2 finals, driver’s pit pass, cookout, competition, and cool people.

    KartLift Kart Stands
    DeepSeat Kart Seats
    877-777-8020
    ------------------
    Don't bother PMing me, it doesn't work. Email is best: tim@kartlift.com.

  • #36706

    Mark Erpelding
    Participant

    The cost of racing a go kart is getting plain STUPID at a National Level…  A friend of mine laughs at me when I tell him how much it cost me to race!   He has a modified and is paid Tow money just to show up!   They are going to hurt the attendance by out pricing themselves.   REMEMBER THIS IS ONLY GO KART RACING!

    We spend our money on Racin, Whiskey and Women.... The rest we waste....

  • #36707

    Xander Clements
    Participant

    I always find it funny how hard WKA tries to hype up their drivers with their press release, blowing a lot of smoke without having supporting evidence. For example, they have promised two things that could not be farther from the truth about this upcoming season in one of the first announcements that came out.

    1. Less classes. This is proven wrong quite simply by looking at their class structure from this year and what they are planning on running next year. Below are the adjustments.
    – Elimination of Komet Junior, going down to 2 Junior classes from 3. This is combatted by coming to 5 total classes in sportsman, bringing in the mini rok to normal cadet and moving the Comer K80 down to a rookie class, making two rookie divisions.
    – Elimination of Parilla Senior and TaG Senior, 2 Senior classes, both replaced by X30 Senior and Leopard Senior.
    – Elimination of the KPV engine in Piston Port Senior, moving to Yamaha Senior Can, although off their latest release it seems they have went back on their initial ruling and have decided on Yamaha Senior Pipe.
    – Elimination of TaG Masters, but the addition of the WKA Stock Moto class balances that back out as well.

    Overall, they’ve gone from 12 classes, to 12 classes again. Surprising that some WKA drivers haven’t caught on to that.

    2. More track time. The best way to show this claim’s falsehood is by comparing the new weekend schedule and the old weekend schedule.
    – Friday Practice is the same as the older version, with the same number of classes and sessions.
    – Saturday had 4 sessions on the old schedule, (Warmup, Qualy, PreFinal, Final), and on the new schedule it has 4 as well, (Warmup, Qualy, Heat 1, Heat 2).
    – Sunday had 4 sessions on the old schedule, (Warmup, Qualy, PreFinal, Final), and on the new schedule it has only 3, (Warmup, PreFinal, Final).

    So, with WKA saying a lot of great things about their new structure, in the end they are actually charging more for minor purses and changes said to be to the same tune of other national series, such as USPKS and SKUSA, but are not even close. They don’t seem to be making any changes to the benefit of the racer, such as trying to balance the Leopard and X30 in the Parilla Junior category, or investigate deeper as to why they are losing so many racers.

  • #36725

    Steve Baker
    Participant

    I went to the WKA annual meeting ( 18 hour round trip drive ) and I can tell you first hand that running a karting organization and keeping everyone happy is no easy task. I would encourage all kart racing members to attend this meeting and get involved in this open communication membership meeting. If you would take the time to understand how difficult running a series is you might have a different perspective. I can tell you WKA truly wants karting to be successful and is always open for recommendations from members. You may find it more productive to get involved and supporting the organizations with ideas and being part of improving kart racing for everyone involved. We all truly need to work together and support this sport for future karting growth!

    Thanks
    Steve Baker
    419-217-3881 cell

    Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.
    Albert Einstein

  • #36739

    Kerry Yunck
    Participant

    I agree with you Steve 100% . From what I here through the grapevine Van and Rick are out. Can you confirm ?

    • #36749

      Bob Vehring
      Participant

      Rumors have been flying around enough, wish someone would start talking.

       

  • #36777

    Gary Lawson
    Participant

    I believe more track time will be due to more laps for each session, not more sessions.

    Under this type of format it is not the norm to run multiple classes like has been so popular in wka. Quality vs quantity is why I believe the cost is higher under this format. So instead compare prices to skusa and uspks assuming track time/laps are similar. Btw I have not done this.

  • #36778

    Kerry Yunck
    Participant

    Top secret meeting ? Someone who was there must have info .

  • #36803

    Jim Maier
    Participant

    Hi Gary, if we have the same number of classes, or a similar number, then how can there be more track time per session?  The same amount of classes will have to practice, qualify, race etc.  There is only so much time in the day.

  • #36804

    patrick j slattery
    Participant

    Normally at Daytona, they do not have kid karts, so with kid karts I think they have the same amount of classes as before.  I don’t see any additional track time coming.  They dropped the qualifier on the 2nd day, but still only have two races per class, maybe they might pick up a few laps on a heat.

     

  • #36896

    Jim Maier
    Participant

    Why do they have similar classes like rookie comer and rookie Yamaha?  Why not one or the other?  Having 2 classes means the very competitive kids need to enter both.  It doubles entry fees and reduces track time for all the other classes.  If they combined all of these similar classes it would result in lower costs, be just as competitive, and everybody would actually benefit from more track time.  I am probably missing an obvious reason why they have these duplicate classes, so please let me know.

    • #36905

      Bob Vehring
      Participant

      Money, they hope you enter more classes, the shops hope you will buy a different engine/kart for the extra class, they in turn sponsor the classes.

      Same deal in Road Racing, for the better part of a decade, Animals were either the first or second largest class. One set of engine rules, 3 weight classes, light, med, heavy. Run twice either day. That now is up to 12, 4 cy classes, different engines, different rules. Last year at Daytona, they had 15 Animals, it used to be we would have between 30-40 Animals at each race. We raced Daytona every year since ’94, do we go anymore to race against 15 others, not a chance.
      Now a question, is WKA still a member owned org.?

  • #37487

    George Sunderland
    Participant

    The fact that the collective reaction to the resignations has been a huge yawn is very telling.  IF there’s anything left to salvage, any chance of restoring the “WKA 6”?

  • #37498

    George Sunderland
    Participant

    No name calling.  Just my two cents (and others’) from talking to folks past 2 days….

     

    WKA needs a clean sheet of paper. Its been run by folks with close industry and business ties for many years and we see how that’s gone. Moving forward it should be run by racers for racers. All board members and staff must be free of any conflicts of interest which means absolutely no financial ties to karting businesses or industry whatsoever. No personal sponsorships, nothing. Active racers wanted.  Folks interested in steering more business their way should be kept out.  Once trust is established and rules are stabilized, the year to year obsoleting of everyone’s equipment will stop and costs will stabilize. This will keep current karters and help bring new ones in. And more karters will equal more business for the industry.

  • #37513

    Bob Vehring
    Participant

    Well now that its finally out there, I was expecting, a bit more talk also. As George said, maybe its to late. I hope not, and I hope the current trustees can really see the problems of the past and what led to this.
    I would guess that each form of karting has their own list of what went wrong, that alone points to the most serious of the problems.
    Tonight I got a notification that trustee nominations are beginning in 4 districts
    WKA is made up of, dirt oval, asph. oval, 4 cy sprint, 2 cy sprint, and Road Race series. Your elected officials that represent you and make your vote, are based on geographic area. Nothing about that makes sence.
    I live in an area that for as long as I can remember, my trustee has been a 2 cy, Man Cup guy. Nothing wrong with that, but few have understood anything about my 4 cy, road race or oval, questions. Calling others from a outside area really went nowhere because they weren’t “my” rep.

    This is not a new concept, I have had this conversation going back to Randy, certainly Rick and Van’s time. Look at it logically, A Man Cup guy doesn’t understand Dirt, a Dirt guy can’t run Road Race. Road Race guys probably don’t get Gold cup. This didn’t work in the past, and it won’t work any better in the future. Members need to elect the people they want to represent them, but it has to be by the series they race in.

    I’ve been politically involved in this sport for a very long time, people run for a position because they want to help what they race in. They generally have a good understanding of the series they race but in 30 years, I’ve never met anyone that was very well versed in all 5 types of karting. To succeed this has to change so each group can run itself, so racers have direct input into the series they actually run, not be governed by others that know nothing about their series

  • #37542

    George Sunderland
    Participant

    Agree Bob. I’m sure there are others like me who have raced all forms of karts from street racing 2 and 4 strokes to dirt to asphalt oval and road course as well as laydown enduros and Superkarts.  But year to year, have to focus on one or two forms of racing at the most.  Just not enough money or time.  Each form of karting is its own beast.    Even the shops tend to specialize in one or at most two forms of karting.  You need well known active participants  (racers not businessmen) to help steer each unique division.

    I just know time is short and the constant bickering, special interests, backroom drug deals and almost daily rules and class changes has got to stop.  Its not all bad and there has to be hope.  Just need a clean sheet and a commitment from everyone to establish trust and move forward to provide stability to long-term rules, classes, and venues.

     

  • #37543

    Gene Davis
    Participant

    Having been on the “inside” of WKA my opinion is that until the Code Of
    Regulation gets changed they can not move forward. Same thing happens year after year, just the players change. To me this is like going to the track whith the same set up week after week and wondering why you never get faster.

    I really enjoyed my time with WKA and will miss that part of my racing experience.

    Gene

  • #37687

    Jack Reall
    Participant

    Bob, on your post 36905 on November 11. I would like to clarify some things. As the only 4 cycle racer on the RR Competition committee (something I did not ask to be part of), I have taken my job of representing our racers very seriously. I have sought input and used it to create comment to make changes from year to year. It is not always heard or acted upon, but that does not mean it did not happen.

    Last year we had 25 racers in the Animal 360 class at Daytona. It has always been a big class and the most recent years when you were not present were no different. It brings out the best in the fields. But then the race groups fall off as the season progresses.

    The trustees threw Pro-gas into the mix last year and the 4 cycle racers managed it to the best of their ability.

    Last year there were actually 4 classes for stock animal (light, medium, heavy and super heavy). In order for me to race more than twice a weekend, I had to buy and bring another motor (either  a clone, LO206, Pro-Gas or Limited Modified). This year through the input of the racers at meetings I held online and in person, we changed the classes to allow more races WITHOUT having to buy other engines. I think this helps the stock animal program. I can now enter 4 races a weekend with my stock animal. And if I want to race more I can put on my LM, or buy a LO206 and put it on the track.

    I am not in any way shape or form defending the WKA organization. But I feel like I have done everything I can to make Road Racing better for the 4 cycle community and to act like you or I have been completely ignored is not an accurate statement.

    Hope to see you this year, either at WKA or CES events.

    Jack

  • #37689

    Bob Vehring
    Participant

    Jack, you are one of the good guys, know how much you have done. At this point in my mind the way it was in the past is now over. The question is how will it proceed in the future
    Here IMO is the scariest part of this whole deal. In the past as certain things tried to get changed, and lets not pretend some did not attempt this always in the political right manor, There always was a uproar from either this forum, or its 4 cy counterpart sometimes both.A system of checks and balances to some degree.
    Now looking here in this post, several of us tried to get some response to this quite awhile before the “official announcement” came out a few days ago. Not a peep, same at 4 cy. Have we reached the time where people do not care anymore? we will have that answer in a few weeks.
    I hope racers remember that despite the problems of the past outside of IKF teritory if that still exsits out there, WKA I think is one of the only series around anymore that is a member own org.. I hope someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe most of the other series out there now are owned and run by a person or group and in most cases have very strong ties to, the equipment used in that series.

  • #37796

    Linda Baldus
    Participant

    Bob V. said: ” WKA I think is one of the only series around anymore that is a member own org.. I hope someone can correct me if I’m wrong,”
    As far as I know, IKF is still member-owned, and I absolutely know that KART is member-owned.

    Keep on kartin'. llb
    Raymore, MO
    lindabaldus@hotmail.com

  • #37813

    Gary Lawson
    Participant

    It’s absolutely crazy to look back on all the political nonsense that lead to this moment and think that wka is actually member owned. The system in place is obviously flawed since the members didnt really make the major decisions that lead to their downfall. I’ve been a member for a long time and I didnt choose the previous or current people in charge. It is very hard to find someone with both a passion and drive to grow karting without having a personal or political agenda.

  • #37820

    George Sunderland
    Participant

    “””””  This site really needs a “like”  button,. Spot on Gary.    And Gene, I have to agree with you as well. Thank you for all you’ve done.

    I’ve been a member since 1980.  And for much of that time I just raced and paid little attention to how the sausage was made or who made it.  It was only when the sport I loved so much seemed to be fading that I paid more interest.   Seems like overnight in road racing we went from 600+ entries being the norm at all events to considering more than 200 a huge success.  And its not just road racing.  Here’s a comment I got from a dirt racing friend:

    “As much as I dislike the notion, karting is hurting very badly. In dirt, tire prep has been the main thorn in the side of the average racer.My favorite dirt class, which is dominated by the UAS, the best engine costs more than a late model crate engine….and that is just the base engine. That is just stupid. As long as we allow rule structures that don’t follow common sense, we will continue to watch karting die a death of abandonment.”

    IMHO:  He’s right.  It is stupid.  We can’t expect to attract too many new people for the long haul  with the insane costs and constant rules changes.  The question is do we care enough to save it all?  Or can it even be saved?  We may be member owned but we can only see the financial statements by appointment and we have to travel to Charlotte during business hours to do that  Strange, they used to be posted in the magazine annually.  Presidents for Life are a bad idea.  Especially when it can’t be explained how they got to be President for Life.  So are board members with major business ties and other conflicts of interest.  If you have to have rules made that force people to buy your product or keep them from using competing products, there must be something inherently wrong with it.    If you have to constantly make your product obsolete there is something wrong with it.

    Hopefully we can all agree the mid 1980’s was the heyday for enduro racing.  Burris was the flagship sponsor.  But we weren’t required to use Burris tires, wear Burris suits or even display his stickers.  But I think he still did well in business through a solid product and the goodwill he established.  And several parts trucks  were at every event selling Burris products as well as his competitors’ goods.  We also saw George Kugler regularly walking the pits and talking to everyone.  Seems it took a sudden wrong turn  somehow.

    No conflicts of interest.  No Presidents for Life.  Term limits on Board members. 3-5 year rules and class freezes.  And for endure racing, return to the NASCAR rovals and other venues that the average Joe recognizes.  All would be a step in the right direction. But most importantly, we all need to check our egos, selfish interests, and BS at the door  and realize without each and everyone of us, the ship has sunk.

     

     

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