Home Forums General Karting Discussion What is going on with karting; is the climate shifting or something?

This topic contains 26 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Roger Ruthhart 8 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #90623

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    I don’t know where to look anymore and I feel sorry for the people and companies that have invested in the engines. I have been following (the sport of karting) since 2009 and I get lost every time I check on different series. It’s almost like I’m watching the Forge of Empires phone app. SKUSA runs the west coast, I’m guessing Route 66 runs the central us and who knows runs the east coast.

    In 2009, when I first found out about the sport, the two big ones was SKUSA on the west and the WKA on the east and Rotax where ever. Filled with several motors and that one random Motari 7 motor. Now, it’s a IAME take over. The only series that runs any thing else is the F series and I think they just went national and, depending what area you live in, the club seen is seeing 3 to 4 karts in tag and shifter :-!. The Route 66 Sprint Series is still running Yamaha. As for the kids, they don’t even run four strokes anymore unless it’s the club level.

    Now the Rock Island Grand Prix runs every engine pretty much. They are governed by Tag USA. What ever happened to Tag USA? You have people who paid some money for these engines, whether to sell or to race. People were saying they couldn’t balance the motors out and weights weren’t working in the Tag classes. Now, everyone across the country is forced to go IAME unless they want to go Rotax.(I still don’t know if there a series or a once and a year thing) Rok engines are squeezing every little bit they can with their one make series and make up for it with engine rentals I’m guessing. Does anyone have a choice on an engine anymore?

    People say the karting numbers are low and we need more racers. If I was new to this, I wouldn’t be able to find Waldo! Is the WKA the IKF? Is SKUSA or the Rotax Grand Nationals the pinnacle of the sport? I like this engine better, where can I race it:-? How do I know if I buy this $3,800 blue printed engine because I want to win; the series won’t race it anymore next year:-? The series is spec, so is a blue printed motor legal? Is karting a business or a sport? Why does every time there is a ladder system it disappears? Is there a team USA for karting and are only 13 year olds eligible:-?

    Beats me, I guess I’ll have an arsenal of practice motors to keep the X30 fresh; if I ever deiced to get one!!!

    Thanks for reading

     

     

  • #90638

    tony zambos
    Participant

    Can’t tell if you’re a karting participant or an observer. Series change, chassis change, tires change and engines come into vogue. I wouldn’t be concerned s to what’s happening around the country. Race your local club and enjoy. If you get the urge to try a bigger series, go out and try it.

    LAD Specialties customer / tony kart / rotax / kt100

  • #90639

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    This is getting a little ridiculous. Multiple people have explained the TaG/multi-engine class thing to you on your other 3 threads you posted this week, but for some reason you’re not understanding.

    It’s pretty simple; multi-engine TaG racing was too expensive, so people wanted single-engine. Now each engine manufacturer is pushing their product. IAME seems to be producing the best product right now, that’s why many series are running their product.

    If you were actually involved in the sport other than being an outside observer, you would have a better grasp on the series, what their future plans are, how you can make an informed buying decision on an engine, and what series is best for you.

    SKUSA has the west coast covered, WKA/USPKS/F-Series have the midwest/east coast covered. Find out what their rule sets are, visit your local club, buy a used kart for $1000 and go have fun. That’s what will “fix” karting. Sitting around on the internet complaining about something you have no frame of reference or experience with isn’t helping the sport.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #90641

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    I will say what ever I want to who ever I want about karting on a karting forum.

    Maybe be the new people should read this to get a general since of what trends are going on in a investment like karting. And then, to show them the (ASS HOLES), that they will encounter at these tracks, because your not a local or top 10 or a vet. Like you said T.J., the X30 is what is working rite now, FOR NOW. And then, all the series are going to switch to another engine. Like the one guy said in the forum below me; then those engines will be worth next to nothing! That makes it even more expensive in the long run.

    How about you buy a new engine every time you need a rebuild and then go buy a $1,000 chassis AND EAT DIRT!

    Thanks for responding Tony, I see you have a kt 100 or a familiar with them!

     

  • #90642

    Dan Brown
    Participant

    Richard, I am confused as to what engine it is that you want to run? I think the great thing about karting right now is that you can bolt on an x30 and race almost anywhere in the US . Tires are a different story, as most of the series run a different brand of tire, but since we put on new tires every race day anyways it really isn’t a big issue. Engines come and go , the Leopard had a good solid 10+ year run as the Tag engine to have. IAME came out with something new and better in the x30 and the racers have embraced it. However, that doesn’t mean the Leopards are worthless now, as most kart clubs still have classes that run them. I have a new Evo Rotax sitting here that is worth peanuts now compared to what it cost 2 years ago. In my opinion, Rotax themselves are the only ones to blame for the rapid decline of their popularity. The forced upgrades at ridiculous prices, and the quality of some of the new components, mostly the wiring harness, left a bad taste in a lot of racers mouths. IAME took the opportunity to offer a fantastic trade in deal to swap in a Rotax towards a new X30 and people jumped all over it. ROK offered a similar deal last year, and a lot of local racers around here purchased a new RoK Tag engine. I don’t feel any engine is being forced down anyones throat, if the racers weren’t happy with the performance/ reliability of an engine the race promoters would be hearing about it, and changes would take place. As far as different sanctioning bodies are concerned, I like the fact that there are multiple options as far as which series to run. If I, or any other racer, is unhappy with how a series is operated, we have the choice to not race that series and we can go run a different one . And most of the time I don’t even have to unbolt the x30 for a different engine package.

  • #90646

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    Thanks for responding Dan,

    I would like to say that I am in no way trying to down play any series or trying promote anything, I’m just stating the hierarchy that I am seeing. Just an opinion, the fan in me wants to see multiple engine classes, the racer in me wants to see equal racing!

    I would like to run Tag, as for what engine idk yet. From what I’m hearing, I’ll probably go X30. And, yes, I do like the idea of running pretty much everywhere.

    As, for club racing, everyone is going to want to run at a different or bigger track eventually, hence Route 66 or F-Series; no one will ever forget home!!! Not downing club racing, AMP is a nice track!

    Out of subject to lighten the mood up! Has anyone followed the Gold Cup in Australia, I believe they run 100cc and something smaller for the kids; now that’s something I would spend $1,000 chassis for.

    I wish clean racing to all!

  • #90650

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    I love your questions, your eager and wanting to learn more and more about karting, and wanting to find out what is wrong with our sport.

    However, some of your questions you ask may not have an answer, or just may not be important enough for the big names to answer. Karting is a sport, but it’s also a business. Things do change a lot, just like everything else around you, some of your questions need to be directed to the root of the industry, not the drivers, consumers, team owners, etc. Some times we have no choice but to move on, along the way we get screwed or find benefit in new changes. Look I get it! there are lots of things I hate and love about the sport, I wish things were different too, but they’re not.

    This would be like me complaining about modern cars about electronic throttle body, instead of cable operated, or ABS brakes, or the abundance automatic transmissions rather than manual transmission/gear boxes, push start buttons rather than a regular key????

    I don’t think they make car commercials asking us if we’re ok with all those features, we just get bent over and take it. In reality Do you think all that will go back to how it used to be?

    TJ made a good point, If you stay away from karting for a few years, and then check back in, you’re gonna find a culture shock with changes, but if you stay in it you will see things better, and will understand why the changes happen.

    I hate changes too, I hate having to change cell phones, I hated back in the day when they told me I had pay extra for my new smart phone, since it had network (internet ) I didn’t really need it or want it, they just bent me over and gave it to me with Vaseline included.

    Don’t give me wrong, I am a strong fighter and refuse to give up that easily, but I honestly think you are on an uphill battle, some times you just have to pick your battles and enjoy the ride. Or some times you can win the war and lose the battle.

    Problems do exist everywhere, even in F1, MotoX, Nascrap, and all major motor sports, there are lots of people unhappy.

    That being said……. Just relax, get involved, have fun, race your kart for a season or 2, by then you will know what to do next, plus you will have plenty of info available to you, and if you still wanna re invent the wheel then hopefully by then you will have all the contact info to all the major organizers, builders, importers, responsible people for the direction the sport is going, then you can approach them, and give them a proposal.

     

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but 1/2 the people here may not even know the answer to your questions, nor the root of the problem. Mean while, welcome to the sport, buy an X3o, KA100 for more affordability, Briggs LO206 for dirt cheap maintenance or a shifter kart, but please don’t make the same mistake a few have made, thinking you will become the next Indy car, F1, Nascrap star. Just enjoy karting and do the best you can.

     

    Now Can we put this to rest and move on? You’re welcome to ask more honest questions about how to get you started, on what class, and performance wise, no more politics.

  • #90652

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    Thanks for responding Freddy.

    No more politics, I promise.

  • #90655

    Matt Martin
    Participant

    What’s a climent?

  • #90658

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    What’s a climent?

    oh lol, auto text and a few beers!

  • #90659

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Matt, stop it!!!!!!! Lol

    You guys are making me tired.

    I think he meant to say climate, mood, weather, newest and hottest, etc.

  • #90662

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Not trying to be an ass, but when someone who admits their experience is limited to rental karting and watching Speed Channel comes in and asks questions, to which numerous very experienced karting people answered kindly, and then to basically call BS on these answers and continue to explain how to fix a problem that you admitted you don’t have any experience with, backed up with speculation and guesswork… You’ve got to understand that it comes across as a little insulting to those of us who have been in this industry for a long time and literally have our heart and souls invested in karting.

    I’ve been racing for 16 years and my entire life, including my business, is based around karting. Coming in and telling me how screwed up my sport is with no inside perspective of it, hits a little close to home.

    I hope you can figure out what you’re looking for in karting and have fun with it. Cheers.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #90672

    Clark Gaynor Sr.
    Participant

    OK Richard, you seem to live in the DC, Maryland, Northern Virginia area.  There are three tracks where you can go, look around, ask questions and maybe decide what direction you’d like to go.

    Nicholson Speedway, Chestertown, Md.  They race a few times a month, small sprint track, I haven’t been there in years, but will likely be mainly 4 cycle (Briggs), some Yamaha’s and maybe a few Tags.  They have a website.

    Sandy Hook Speedway, Street, Md.  Again, race a few times per month.  Small sprint track, biggest classes are Tag classes.  Tag and Tag for older folks.  Some 4 cycles, usually Jr and Sr 206 stuff.  Website.

    Woodbridge Kart Club, WKA road racing at Summit Point Main, SP Shenandoah and VIR.  I know you don’t like racing karts on sports car tracks, but it’s a good place to see a lot of Tags and shifters.  Along with CIK 206’s, Animal Sprints, and a bunch of laydown classes.  We also have a website, with our schedule and contact info.

    Also other sprint tracks at NJMP, Englishtown, and OVKA.

    One more thing to keep in mind, unless you run SKUSA we don’t really care what the West coast, Texas, or even much of the mid West does.  I have no intention of dragging all my go-kart stuff all the way to Laguna from here in Pottstown, Pa.  Where you live, get more educated on what WKA does, or your local sprint track.

    Clark Sr.

  • #90673

    Clark Gaynor Sr.
    Participant

    You can also Youtube Summit Point Stock Leopard and or Summit Point Stock Honda and get a feel for road racing those classes.  Same applies to Sandy Hook Tag.

  • #90677

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Or move to Cali, and see what we do here. Lol

    Enjoy the video from Willow Springs international raceway ( Streets of Willow) And Streets of Lancaster GP, it’s kind of like Long Beach Grand Prix, but for karting.

  • #90679

    Mark Traylor
    Participant

    TJ Koyen is the farthest thing from an asshole.

    the life of a kart engine (KT100 excluded) really is pretty much 10 years max.  An old or out of voque engine may not be able to be raced nationally all over but it is not worthless, it just changes duties and becomes a hobby karter engine or a club engine.   My son races Briggs and Stratton at home and an X30 on travel races.  If we get to race 5-7  years on X30 then have to switch that is ok as we have gotten good use out of them and they will be sold to someone only racing club or running a hobby kart.

     

    this sport is always evolving.  It is not perfect but those of us that do it love it.  and throwing out names and calling people assholes does not sit well at all, particularly when people have repeatedly tried to help answer questions.   The best way to learn about the sport is to get involved in it.  even if it is volunteering at a club as a corner worker.

  • #90680

    Mark Traylor
    Participant

    BTW…you can not say anything you want about karting on this forum.  The owners of the site don’t tolerate bad behavior.

  • #90681

    Mark Traylor
    Participant

    Freddy, hate to break it to you but your cell phone company didn’t use any lube.  They charge extra for that.

  • #90682

    Clark Gaynor Sr.
    Participant

    Good stuff Freddy!  Here’s one from Summit Point Main, Stock Leopard (currently IAME Sprint).  Black kart, orange helmet is my kid, Clark Jr for what it’s worth.

     

     

    Clark Sr.

  • #90684

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Nice video Clark!

    Good and fun clean driving too, your Son is very competitive, and so are the other kids.

    Overall nice video, Thanks for posting it buddy.

     

    And Traylor I knew about the lube, just thought it was more fun the way I described it, but yeah, you’re right! It shows up on my bill every month (Lube Fee) Lol. Good stuff buddy!!!!!!!

  • #90716

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    Briggs 206, rental karts; tomato, tamato! racing is racing unless, were at six flags America. As some one said, stick to your budget.

    Anyway, I’m sorry Ekarting news for my language, I seen people cursing a couple of times and no complaint.

    Clark, I’ve been to Nicholson and sandy hook; not as much as I want due to transportation issues.  I have driven, never raced, tags at NJMP, Sandy hook and Pitt. And of course, I’ve raced there rental karts; I can never forget home.(NJMP, excellent track by the way) I try not to watch you guys to much, it scares the shit out of me; sorry!

    Freddy, you guys on the west coast, have by far, the largest karting community in the US. Whether rental karts or shifter and most of those rental kart guys run tag or shifter. The most tracks per square mile and SKUSA! I wouldn’t drive my equipment from coast to coast either, hence arrive and drive. I watch the Streets of Lancaster races all the time and that first night race you guys had was absolutely amazing! I wished you guys hadn’t taken out that chicane; on the down side it did look kind of dangerous.

    Also, you can read a persons tone from text.

    Clean racing to all and thanks for responding!

     

     

  • #90797

    Tom Varner
    Participant

    Something seems to be going on and it looks downhill to me – been involved for 10 years – when we started Man Cup had LCQ’s – I remember 46 Jr sportsman at MRP – now RoboPong is gone – looks like TAG is going – USPKS and Man Cup lucky to get 15 karts per class – wondering if the problem w TAG is Leopard 07, 09 and now X30 – not many can afford to keep up with the motor of the day – may have something to do with declining fields – still fun and a great sport but numbers are dropping for some reason spelled money and WKA / USPKS split –

  • #90835

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    Something seems to be going on and it looks downhill to me – been involved for 10 years – when we started Man Cup had LCQ’s – I remember 46 Jr sportsman at MRP – now RoboPong is gone – looks like TAG is going – USPKS and Man Cup lucky to get 15 karts per class – wondering if the problem w TAG is Leopard 07, 09 and now X30 – not many can afford to keep up with the motor of the day – may have something to do with declining fields – still fun and a great sport but numbers are dropping for some reason spelled money and WKA / USPKS split –

    Thanks for responding Tom.

    The most you can do is have fun!

  • #90924

    Ken Manning
    Participant

    I love driving my Kart and just bought a new Rok shifter. This sport is about having fun and it’s not always cheap. Buy yourself a kart that you can afford and go have fun. I race with a local shop and a lot of customers don’t race they enjoy track days. I race because I enjoy the competition. K1 or other indoor kart centers are fun as well. CalSpeed has a rental race series and is very affordable. I’ve raced it a couple of times and it’s a blast! The quality of drivers in that series are top notch, just because they don’t have the money to race a big series doesn’t mean they have any less talent. Karting is alive and well, so get out to the track and have fun!!🏁

  • #90946

    Richard talbert
    Participant

    I love driving my Kart and just bought a new Rok shifter. This sport is about having fun and it’s not always cheap. Buy yourself a kart that you can afford and go have fun. I race with a local shop and a lot of customers don’t race they enjoy track days. I race because I enjoy the competition. K1 or other indoor kart centers are fun as well. CalSpeed has a rental race series and is very affordable. I’ve raced it a couple of times and it’s a blast! The quality of drivers in that series are top notch, just because they don’t have the money to race a big series doesn’t mean they have any less talent. Karting is alive and well, so get out to the track and have fun!!🏁

    Thanks for responding Ken.

    There is good racing and racers everywhere no matter what form of racing.

    If only they would add Sport Karting (as they say) and a magical national club racing series to USF 2000 shoot out scholarship!!!

  • #90972

    Dan Brown
    Participant

    And on the topic of declining fields and engine popularity, today in Florida SKUSA had to close the x30 Junior field , they can only handle 44 entries in the class and it is full. So I think there are other reason besides engine choices why some areas and series are seeing declining numbers. I can’t speak as to the reasons why, as I have never personally run or attended an event run by one of those series. I can say that we have raced the F Series Gearup and that series numbers keep growing steadily every year. Most of the F Series races last year had 120-150 karts racing at them, and the Formula 125 Leopard only TaG class was always a huge field. So on the east coast if a driver doesn’t want to spend a fortune on an engine or upgrade their Leopard to an X30 there is a well organized touring series to run that has plenty of competition. And I think that is a great thing for karting.

  • #92092

    Roger Ruthhart
    Participant

    For the record, Rock Island is not governed by TAG USA, but we are happy to use their rules which are made available to anyone who needs them.

    One thing to remember with regards to TAG and TAG USA is that 1) it was created at a time when there were a lot of TAG engines but not a lot of any one brand in this country. So if your track had 3 Biland’s 2 Rotax and an Easykart (dusting off history there, right?), you could run them all together. Founder Tom Argy Jr.  knew eventually some would get enough traction to have their own class, but not at every track. 2) Second thing to remember was it was never intended as a national class … various series and sanctioning bodies made that happen, then people started tinkering with engines, etc. etc. Tom’s vision was that other than a couple of large fun-filled weekends (Rock Island was one, TAG Nationals another) where people could step up a rung on the ladder to compete outside their own club, it was just supposed to be a local race class. I’m sure there are still local tracks using TAG USA’s rules because when you throw in the Local Option set they cover almost anything. Dave Larson has done a good job of keeping the program alive. But short answer, Tom never expected TAG to last forever.

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