Home Forums General Karting Discussion What engine to start- Rotax, x30, Vortex ?

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Tadas Ratkevicius 3 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #53506

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    Hi everyone. I want to start karting, chassis probably buy used tony kart 30mm or 32mm not sure, I guess 30 for rotax, or 32 tag. When Evo came out many racers switching to x30,because of cost?  If I go to Tag x30 or vortex better? Is vortex Tag or separate class?

    Thanks

  • #53536

    Steen Carstensen
    Participant

    Check your local tracks and see what they are running.

  • #53549

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Why don’t you run Briggs LO206 and save thousands.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

  • #53567

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    In Millville NJ, there is no 206 or yamaha. I wish.

    Mostly rotax, and little less tags. Which is recommended? If tag then Vortex or X30?

    Thanks

     

  • #53828

    Ray Chiappe
    Participant

    I have run a Rotax in Tag for a long time. And I am thinking it’s time to switch to an X30. I mainly Road race and they seem to be pretty fast and the less weight would be a big help for me.

  • #53833

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    X30 is probably your best bet, as most of the country allows X30 to compete whereas Vortex is all but dead in anything but club racing. X30 is becoming the standard in TaG.

    As far as chassis go, can’t go wrong with a Tony Kart. 30mm if you’re under 190 pounds, 32mm if you’re over.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
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  • #53839

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    In my area rotax more popular. Im close to 190lbs, so which chassis ? I guess if tag with different tires used better 32mm? rotax mojo 30mm used?

    Thanks

    Why Vortex is dead? I though they make good engine like mini rok beats iame mini swift.

  • #53852

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Our drivers all use the 30mm kart and our biggest driver is about 180. Honestly if you’re just starting, it probably won’t matter if you go with the 30 or 32, you might not even feel the difference.

    The Vortex TaG engine, the Rok TT, isn’t as popular anymore, largely because the Leopard was just as fast, if not faster, cheaper, and just as reliable. The Rok is a super nice engine, it just didn’t enjoy the popularity the Leopard has. And the Leopard is now being phased out in favor of IAME’s newer more reliable engine, the X30 which is a nicer package overall.

    Vortex makes other great engines for other classes are enjoy a strong following, but currently their TaG popularity has dropped off.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #53859

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    Is matter new or 2 years old 30mm, probably no matter for 32mm. By the way thinking more to ho rotax mojo.

    Thanks everyone

  • #53861

    Wade Wishneski
    Participant

    If you’re in the Millville NJ or NJ area, I would suggest a Leopard and race with the F1 Gear Up series.  The Formula 125 TAG class has many participants in the events.  Leopard motors are dependable, easy to tune, and you can find many of them around.  Club races in the NJ & NY area all have Leopard accepted classes.  I just got involved in karting in 2015, did my research and opted to buy a kart with a Leopard and also bought a spare Leopard.  I live in the Philly suburbs.  In this area of the country, X 30’s are around, but Leopards still out number the X-30’s.  just some suggestions.

  • #53882

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    I live in philly suburbs to- Doylestown. I will like to race millville, and maybe ovrp, practice englishtown sometimes, don’t like that parking lot to much. So in millville I heard rotax most popular, second choice tag leopard, I heard guys from millville may switch rotax to x30 next year. Not sure why, i thought x30 better engine then leopard, smoother I read. Leopard top end faster maybe, mid maybe better x30. I don’t have one so can’t tell. And Vortex probably not good as Iame right?

    Thanks

  • #53931

    Wade Wishneski
    Participant

    Tadas

    I am familiar with D-town area, its where I work.  Based on your location Millville & Etown are good options for you as is OVRP.  Etown is quite rough for sure.  With that said, I would suggest you race with F1 Gear UP or NJSS, both series that have a few races a year and usually good kart counts.  As for club racing only, OVRP & E Town are both decent options, and Millville has the MidAtlantic races which are basically club races.  Again, I believe the Leopard or X30 are your best choices for TAG race classes in this area of the country, IMO.  Both are dependable motors and very easy to tune.

  • #53938

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    What about rotax to run in njmp or ovrp ? I see most rotax on the track in milville. I saw northeast rotax race to.

    If I buy used chassis 2 years old for tag and Im weight 190lbs so is better 32mm tony for tag, or 30mm for rotax mojo’s ? Right?

    Thanks

  • #54063

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    If you weight 190 in the morning before getting dressed you want the 32mm chassis and run the Rota$ heavy class.

    But, why don’t you get an LO206 and go over to Etown and get your feet wet. They’ll put you in with similar speed karts and when you’re done with the LO206 they sell like hot cakes, just look and you can’t find one for sale used anywhere.

    Rota$ and tag are god awful fast, you’re going to get run over or maybe lose control and get in a pile up. There are allot of newbie guys in those classes with more money than brains and they can’t handle the power, it’s like a meat grinder. Ask somebody how fast they get going on the main straight at Millville. You know what’s at the end of that straight? a braking zone that’s a twisty “S” and a solid steel barrier with no run off area.

    Be a rookie for a while and come up through the ranks. I think there are allot of people out there waiting for an LO206 class to get going. Start the revolution.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

  • #54064

    Wade Wishneski
    Participant

    September 18, 19, & 20, go to Millville and see the Gear Up Series, lots of karts!!!

  • #54066

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    I like to run in njmp just because is nicer track. I did try to race milville full track with rental tag that I got crap. I put 1.16 time with that junk first time trying, Im ok driver, not so beginner with zero knowledge. I wish njmp have lo206 race, or yamaha. Im ok with less speed, even more fun.

    In etown I don’t like that parking lot, because one mistake- crash, instead go on the grass. But layout is good, good to learn.

     

  • #54246

    Kirt Burcroff
    Participant

    If you’re in the area this weekend, as Wade mentioned, you can see a great example of all of those engines. At the Gearup race there will be 2 strong Leopard classes, as well as the TaG class that mixes X30, Rotax and Vortex engines. If you do and have any questions Wade and I will both be in and around the Swiss Hutless tent.

    I would advise starting on a Yamaha, with all due respect to Walt I wouldn’t buy a Briggs motor and hope someone else shows up with one to race against. If you’re just starting out, the Yamaha will force you to drive and learn how to corner. After a couple of years of TaG motors we went back to Yamaha Sr at Etown this year and the fields have been picking up. About 13 entries at the last race and a lot of fun.

    My son started on the Yamaha, went to HPV, PRD Fireball and then X30. I absolutely love the X30. BY FAR the most reliable and lowest maintenance engines we’ve run. If you’re dead set on starting with a TaG I couldn’t recommend X30 enough. The Leopards are still the standard but they are slowly being phased out (by race promotors and IAME) and within a couple of years you’ll own a boat anchor.

  • #54250

    Ed Portz
    Participant

    do not buy anything rotax!!!

     

     

    regards

     

    current rotax owner Ex supporter of anything rotax.

  • #54254

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    If I go this week then I will come. Is yamaha runs in Milville?

  • #54267

    Wade Wishneski
    Participant

    My understanding is some of those currently with Rotax’s are switching to X-30 in the off season, just some rumblings i’m hearing?  X-30 is gaining momentum, Leopards you can pick up reasonably cheap for a kart motor.  Kirt is right in that the Leopard will eventually go away, but it seems to be in a few years since there are many out there.  Either way, come out to the Gear Up event this weekend and see how successful this series is and many options to race.

  • #54534

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

     

    For x30 good engine builder?

    And rotax good engine builders?

    Rotax I know one Legree, that my friend is using. Don’t know the difference yet

  • #55881

    Curtis Ruth
    Participant

    Brand new complete stuff like this around $4k.  Great starting package that is easily upgraded later.  You can learn the basics of karting and enjoy the sport.  Figure out tuning, race craft, and preparation.  Look into Briggs opportunities at your local club,

     photo 20151023_154350-1_zps9ounrj1y.jpg

     photo 20151023_154350-1_zps9ounrj1y.jpg

     

  • #55940

    Brian Mead
    Participant

    Seriously, It might be better to travel more to run the Briggs. +1 on running it to start. Its an anvil, and you get what your really needing at first, seat time.
    Tags are beelindingly fast for newbs, you’ll spend a lot of time catching up to the kart, and spending on tires and upkeep. I have both, and loved the Iame, but it seemed like it was always something. The races tended to be parades with the really quick fading into the distance on the new tires bought for the race. Our Lo206 class specs a rock hard tire that lasts forever, and a very reasonable clutch. They then line you up and throw you in the deep end of racing. Classes anywhere from 16-22 at the club level, You can learn at a much more reasonable pace. Great class, Briggs is a class act for doing it, and I hope they keep it up.

  • #55949

    Alvin Park
    Participant

    rotax is bad pls dnt use it..

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  • #55991

    Samir Shah
    Participant

    As people say, stick to what your local track racing options are. Balance how you can get the most racing. If the best racing close to you is Rotax, you might want to run that however. I’ve not seeing any Junior or Senior Roks locally. There is a robust Yamaha Senior field at Etown, so consider that too (Yamaha Junior is almost dead however).

    Costs:

    – A used X30 can cost 2x or 3x what a used Leopard costs. If you’re not competing for the lead, the only reason to get an x30 is for the reduced theoretical rebuild frequency.

    – With Rotax, you want the EVO kit on your engine, and that upgrade is no longer cheap. A Rotax (20-25 hours for top end) does not need as much rebuilding as a Leopard (6-10 hrs for cylinder, 15-20 hours for bottom end) or X30 (slightly less frequent than Leopard).  For some reason, Rotax engines are not equal, and good engines can cost a lot of money too. Rotax also are requiring a newer cylinder next year at a national level, so an older Rotax engine, which will be fine in the local clubs, might get cheaper as a result.

    – That being said, this season, we’ve witnessed quite a few stuck X30s, a couple of blown Rotaxes, and I don’t recall seeing any stuck Leopards, although I’m sure there must have been some.

    We started this year, and got a Leopard, to race at Englishtown. The Leopard is also great for the Gearup Series. However, depending on the class, you might be able to run Rotax at Gearup, and most clubs will allow Rotax in TAG.

    However, once we discovered OVRP, we realized that running a Leopard there meant running in a small mixed (Seniors and Juniors) Leopard class – in order to race in a decent field at OVRP, you need a Rotax, since they wont put the Leopard in with the Rotax racers. So we got Rotax equipment as well.  There is no point racing at OVRP in a Leopard. So we now run both Rotax and Leopard in Juniors.

    Re Leopard vs X30 – the local clubs make it possible to run Leopards in Juniors, since they allow a 28mm header on the Leopard vs 29mm on X30 – they are compatible and competitive, even though the engine characteristics are different. However, if the local club requires 25mm on the Leopard (per WKA rules), forget it – it will be 2 or more hp down on the X30 with 29mm header, and will never be competitive. Nationals will run WKA rules, eg Daytona Kartweek, so while it might allow a Leopard, it’ll be pointless. I’m shopping around for a cheap X30 as a result, just in case we want to run National events.

    The Seniors at Etown do just fine with Leopards vs X30 – I suspect you will be able to compete fine with a Leopard.  Their theoretical hp are similar. The track will make a difference – a lot of twisties should favor the X30, or Rotax, a long straight might favor the Leopard.

    Re 30mm vs 32mm – especially at Millville, but also OVRP – you need to drive over the kerbs to be fast, so I think you need a 30mm, unless you are heavy. A 32mm will toss you up when you try to drive over the kerbs. At Etown, you can’t drive over the kerbs – many have turtles. And it’s a low grip track, so a 32mm might be better there.

    Re Englishtown – even though its a parting lot, spinning out is not costly. You don’t really hit anything. The barriers do move. At Milleville, however, I have bent axles and lost chains from going off the track. Milleville is a nice track. But, my son’s favorite track is Etown.

    We only go to Milleville for Gearup, NJSS, or NE Rotax, so I don’t really know what the local club options there are. Check out the number of drivers in each class using Race Monitor results.

    In summary, get the engine that will give you the most racing with a minimum of 7 racers consistently at every event.

     

  • #56047

    Tadas Ratkevicius
    Participant

    Thanks Samir,

    Wow you answered all questions! I wish millville, etown, ovrp have lo206, maybe yamaha in etown only like you said. Millville is my favor, and I think get rotax. Only because my Son will start micromax next year, so I will understand engines better. I heard from engine builders that evo is good for micro, mini but for senior non-evo even better or not big difference ? I guess non-evo should be for  Tag races.

    X30 probably same cost as rotax evo used right?

    Thank you

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