Home Forums General Karting Discussion The No Buzz Supernationals

This topic contains 43 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  Chris Jennings 4 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #16978

    Greg Wright
    Participant

         Maybe it’s just my perception but there was IMO far less buzz about this years Supernats, other than the rain tire debacle there has been very, very little talk about this years running.

      I’ve seen more talk about this years Supernats on Facebook then I have here.

    Any ideas why?

    Greg Wright
    Rapid Racing Inc.
    Vintage B-Stock Pilot
    "When in doubt Gas it, It won't help but it ends the suspense."

  • #16981

    Keith Bridgeman
    Participant

    I have to agree.  I suppose just as you suggest Facebook and other Social media might be taking some of that from these forums.  Also since the change to this forum I wonder how many users where lost.  Threads in general seem slower then before. 

    Also during the Supernats week everyone that is part of karting is there and not posting here.

    I will agree that the wramp up and post supernats where more quiet then usual but as stated above maybe its just harder to gauge.

    I went to watch and I know as a spectator the rain sucked and I’m sure the racers and Teams where worn down by three days of it.   Its one of those races that you will remember because you just got through it.

    http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/

  • #17005

    Daryle Redlin
    Participant

    Just my two cents as someone who has been to many of the Supernationals events, both as a driver and tuner. Over the years I have noticed that the event is becoming more and more about how high the entry numbers are. While I commend Tom and Patti for doing a great job at getting high numbers of drivers to attend its very obvious, especially the last two years, that many drivers shouldnt be there. The atmosphere of the ” race event” is gone when you are on track at 7am and done at noon everyday. I don’t believe that the current format promotes the best of the best to arrive and see who truly is the best driver in the world in a given class. In order to race the Rotax World Finals you have to be good enough to win a ticket somewhere. While this doesnt guarantee that you wont get crashed out it does offer some level of consistancy throughout each of the classes. Drivers that make it to the worlds are pretty damn good usually. In the case of the Supernats anyone can go. I truly believe that the event would be awesome if the emphasis was placed on how good the drivers are instead of how many showed up. I would glady pay double the entry fee to have only 30 karts in each class. Bring back hot pit during qualifying, in KZ or S1 have everyone go out and set a time, 10 minutes only, then the fastest 10 go out for anouther 10 minutes to get the pole. Make it a big deal and promote the crap out of it. All the racers and teams need to help Tom and Patti get this event on TV somehow. Maybe with the new Speed2 channel it could get put on there. I think that the current format is to short on race time and to long on race days and looses some of the excitment because of that. By the time Sunday roles around many are burned out and ready to go home and thats the day that should be the most exciting. The winners of the classes should be heavily promoted afterwards, in that way there is a big incentive to drive perfect and win the race. There should be zero tolerance for blocking and driving poorly, if you do, your out. The buzz should be about how good the driving is at this race. When the world takes a look they will see how awesome karting can be and maybe get involved.

  • #17020

    David Cole
    Keymaster

    Greg, it’s hard to feel the ‘buzz’ without being there. The online buzz was going on all week on social media during the SuperNationals, as well as people tuning into our EKN Live audio coverage. Don’t forget, there was a world-stage event going on the week before, so much of the attention and banter was on the Rotax Grand Finals.

    And being there, SuperSunday was filled with an exciting seven hours of racing that you can’t find anywhere else in North America. Sure, Wednesday through Saturday sucked, with the weather and all. To me, those days are just opening acts for the main stage that Sunday brings.

    I’ll be publishing a column this week reviewing my take on what can be considered the two biggest weeks of karting for American karting.

    Daryle, I’m not sure I agree with you 100% on everything, but do agree with a few things. Yes, the 1/2 days are different, but in order for competitors to have 60 minutes of practice time, along with over 50 laps of competition, it is needed to split up the classes into a morning and afternoon programs. I’m sure much of the everyone’s negative attitude can be due to the weather, because it was terrible for us and for the SKUSA staff to be out there from 7am to 10pm.

    I love the fact that anyone can come and race, but yes, it should be to a certain point. There were a few ‘SuperNats newbies’ that were probably questionable, I’m sure. But that’s what makes the event so exciting. You have to be on your game from day one to Saturday to be able to have a chance to race on SuperSunday. The achievement by the 11 drivers who claimed victory goes into the record books. Some more memorable then others, but still a piece of history.

    David Cole - EKN Managing Editor

  • #17021

    David Cole
    Keymaster

    I have to agree. I suppose just as you suggest Facebook and other Social media might be taking some of that from these forums. Also since the change to this forum I wonder how many users where lost. Threads in general seem slower then before. Also during the Supernats week everyone that is part of karting is there and not posting here. I will agree that the wramp up and post supernats where more quiet then usual but as stated above maybe its just harder to gauge. I went to watch and I know as a spectator the rain sucked and I’m sure the racers and Teams where worn down by three days of it. Its one of those races that you will remember because you just got through it.

    Keith, what was your favorite moment of the event this year?

    David Cole - EKN Managing Editor

  • #17023

    Finch Guenther
    Participant

    I was there watching and I had a fantastic buzz all weekend…

    Finch Guenther

    #51 CRG KPV

  • #17026

    Brian Degulis
    Participant

    I have to agree. I suppose just as you suggest Facebook and other Social media might be taking some of that from these forums. Also since the change to this forum I wonder how many users where lost. Threads in general seem slower then before.

    Also during the Supernats week everyone that is part of karting is there and not posting here.

    I will agree that the wramp up and post supernats where more quiet then usual but as stated above maybe its just harder to gauge.

    I went to watch and I know as a spectator the rain sucked and I’m sure the racers and Teams where worn down by three days of it. Its one of those races that you will remember because you just got through it.

    Threads in general seem Slower. That’s like saying a kid kart is a little slower than a shifter. Threads that used to get a new post every hour or so now go days or just die. That’s contagious and just gets worse. Unfortunately it was also predictable but apparently ignored when the forum was changed.

    Brian

  • #17027

    Daryle Redlin
    Participant

    David, I know that each year the entire Skusa crew is working their tales off to put on the best show possible. This year the weather really showed how committed they are. I’m very thankful that they were there. The thread was basically about the “buzz” of the event. I totally understand that in order to get 600+ drivers through the system you need to start early and end late. I personally think the event would be way better if the best 300-400 drivers showed up and raced from 9am to 6pm everyday. I think it would be better racing if each class had a little more time and the ” show” part of the event would be better if you had things like hotpit in qualifying. I remember back a number of years when Jordy Vorrath was having a battle with Carlton I believe. It was great, lots of people watching the qualifying as each of them took turns moving to the number 1 position. We need to bring back that type of excitment. I remember it and it was years ago, I can’t even remember who was on pole in KZ last year. The event is great but it has lost something in the last few years. Bigger isnt always better. Like I said I would gladly pay more to make sure the event is successful if it meant that I didnt have to worry about getting dive bombed by someone or being punted off. One of the best races all weekend that I saw was the Cadet final, wow, alot of clean passes and a ton of action. We need the senior classes to drive hard, and clean and put on a great show.

  • #17033

    Matt Dixon
    Participant

    Verstappen he owned it all weekend only to have a spark plug crush him in the Main. How could you forget buzzzz…

     

    94y

  • #17040

    Daryle Redlin
    Participant

    Thanks Matt, I forgot about Verstappen.

  • #17064

    Tim Pappas
    Participant

    I think the am/pm split practice is way better.  Even with only 300 racers there are the same number of classes.  It cuts a couple because of the 2 groups, but not much.  If the practice schedule is 9-6 that means you are at the track from 7am-8pm at least and have so much dead time between your sessions.  Instead of 12-13 hours at the track you are only there about 8 with the split schedule.

    The driving in the Tag classes was horrendous.  There is so much blocking and punting that I am not sure it can be policed.  There is no way anyone can see it all.  TAG is pretty rough everywhere, but at the Supernats it’s ridiculous.

    Other than that, I thought the race was great as usual.  There was plenty of buzz on social media, not sure why not so much here.  The forums do seem more quiet than the old ones.  Not sure why.

  • #17070

    Greg Wright
    Participant

    To be clear the “Buzz” that I see missing is the lack of smack talking and general anticipation before the event, and the lack of  bragging and/or complaining after the event.

    Compared to past years it was nearly nonexistent.

    Greg Wright
    Rapid Racing Inc.
    Vintage B-Stock Pilot
    "When in doubt Gas it, It won't help but it ends the suspense."

    • #17073

      Gary Osterholt
      Participant

      To be clear the “Buzz” that I see missing is the lack of smack talking and general anticipation before the event, and the lack of bragging and/or complaining after the event. Compared to past years it was nearly nonexistent.

      Lack of complaining?  I assume you mean besides the rain tire issue.

      Personally I see more communication on Facebook and Twitter now than on the forums.  I know the old forum diehard lovers will say the new forum aren’t good and etc, but in my opinions the forums have been slowing down over the last few years in general.

      Gary Osterholt
      GO Designs, LLC
      http://www.godesigns.us

  • #17081

    Brian Degulis
    Participant

    Are you kidding?  Tech Talk 4 days 16 hours since last post  Chassis and Handling 6 days 10 hours  Shifter 11 hours 38 minutes. This thing has been dying a slow death since the switch.

     

     

    Brian

  • #17082

    Tim Koyen
    Participant

    Facebook is where all the buzz took place.  Am I the only one that noticed that most of the Drivers in the top level series never post on EKN, nor have they ever?

    KartLift Kart Stands
    DeepSeat Kart Seats
    877-777-8020
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    Don't bother PMing me, it doesn't work. Email is best: tim@kartlift.com.

  • #17086

    Joe Johnson
    Participant

    I really don’t think you should be saying EKN is “dying a slow death”. As for no posts I think the reasons are as follows.  Most teams were in Vegas for over a week away from there families.  With the rain there wasn’t really any “rainmasters” racing so how can you talk crap to your fellow racers if you suck as bad as they do?  And last but not least most of the racers have been preparing for this event for months and that means alot of time and financial commitment away from family and work so maybe they are recouping those “brownie” points o get back to the track instead of messing around on “karting porn”

  • #17097

    Daryle Redlin
    Participant

    Tim, I was kinda hoping that the number of classes would go down as well. Do we really need S1 and S2, 4 groups of S4, 4 groups of Tag, 4 groups of Tag Jr., 4 groups of Cadet. The Rotax classes shouldnt be there in my opinion either, they dont even run in the Skusa program. The sessions are so short to accomodate all the race groups. If the race day had say 4 Tag Classes : Cadet, TagJr., Tag Sr, and Tag Masters and say 4 shifter classes: S5, S4, S1, and KZ. You could run 15 minute sessions and hopefully get 4 sessions a day. I actually like a bit of time between so I dont have to rush like a madman to change things.  Currently if you want to see other members of your team race then you may end up being at the track from 7am to 9pm, thats a pretty long day for everyone. You cant go out for dinner with team members sometimes because they are still on track, if your in the morning sessions and they are in the afternoon, your day is almost done before they even show up. I know its tough to schedule and accomodate everyone but I think the current path is not making the situation better. Sometimes I wonder if the driving displayed at the Supernats is a direct result of drivers freaking out that they wont make the final unless they drive like bullies. If you knew you were going to make the main you might think twice about dive bombing somebody or doing some crazy move. Again, this is all just fuel for discussion.

  • #17125

    Keith Bridgeman
    Participant

    David, thanks for asking.  What did I like best.   I thought the racing was very good.  Saw some great racing.  Aggressive?  – A bit much but there was some great close races.   I like watching rain racing but after a half a day I was over it.   Super Sunday went by to fast.

    The split days are a must.   Having raced in 2010 both my brother and I where on different half of the days which was the only way would could have done it because he helped me in the morning and I helped him in the afternoon.   I also use to think that to many classes where a bad thing but I’ve kind of changed my mind on that.   I like seeing the variety of classes and engines.  You get a little of every series in one weekend which is what the race is. 

    I don’t think this would work but I would like to see two main events for the main classes.  S1, KZ, TAG senior and maybe one or two more.   1 race on Saturday and and another on Sunday.

    It would be bad $ss if for the headline classes they could do some type knock out qualifing like F1.  This would be fun to watch and would give the top guys a bit more time on track.

    Or do a dash for cash type race at the end of one of the nights for the t0p 10 in Qualifiers in the main classes and let them have at it. 

    I know, I know there is no time but any race can change things up a bit now and then and keep it fresh.

    Maybe move the Race to early November,   I think Global cooling is taking place in Vegas over the last 5 years  What was 70 degree days seem like 55-60 now.

    http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/

  • #17132

    David Cole
    Keymaster

    Sunday did go by fast. I think the great weather helped it seem like the races were done in a blink of an eye, yet it was non-stop for 7 hours!

    The class structure will always have 8 classes, with SKUSA Pro Tour categories as the backbone of the event. We saw a few more international drivers in S4 and TaG Cadet this year, which helped both get to 80 drivers each. If KZ continues to produce the numbers and racing it has in the past, I don’t see it leaving the SuperNats. Great to see a number of North Americans racing in the class this year again. The tough call is, what classes stay at 40, and what opens up to 80.

    Qualifying shoot-out, if done right, could be interesting. I don’t think we need 12 minute sessions for each class. Drop them down to six minutes, except for the pro classes, maybe make them do a three tier program like F1.

    David Cole - EKN Managing Editor

  • #17135

    Tony Leone
    Participant

    Your nomenclature is a little off, there weren’t 4 groups of any class.  Yes, they were split 4 ways (ABCD) but two always ran together, so only 2 groups.

    Also, keep in mind the financial impact there would be on the teams if SKUSA cut the classes or number of competitors.  Further, while Rotax aren’t SKUSA classes, there are two series, Can-AM and Texas that run SKUSA and Rotax classes together.  Let’s not forget all the other world class drivers that were “in town” for the Worlds and it all starts making a lot more sense for their inclusion this year.

    As an employee and someone that works closely with the scoring team I would prefer to move away from the split days.  But only because of the strain it causes for the girls in scoring with regards to the BIG classes and getting merges, grids and points finished in time.  It has grown to a 3 person team and the girls killed it this year! With 5 BIG classes too, the most we’ve ever had).

    But the teams, drivers and casino LOVE the split days.  Most teams need to employ fewer mechanics and some mechanics can even work for 2 drivers and double their income.  And drivers aren’t stuck at the track all day.  This means more people potentially have more time to gamble :)

  • #17138

    Gary Osterholt
    Participant

    Are you kidding? Tech Talk 4 days 16 hours since last post Chassis and Handling 6 days 10 hours Shifter 11 hours 38 minutes. This thing has been dying a slow death since the switch. Brian

    Brian,

    I’m not talking about the switch.  In general, forums have slowed down across the internet in my opinion.

    And as far as the EKN forum.  I’ve been a member since the start back in 2001.  And even looking at the old forum before the switch, in my opinion, the number of posts, etc was lower than what it was 4-5 years ago.

    Facebook is where all the buzz took place. Am I the only one that noticed that most of the Drivers in the top level series never post on EKN, nor have they ever?

    I’m no top driver, but I think to go with what I stated above.  Over the years more and more poeple have realized, myself included, that a lot of the time the internet and EKN just isn’t the place to talk about certain things.  Personally the heated threads are great, but most of the time they do more harm than good.

     

     

     

    Gary Osterholt
    GO Designs, LLC
    http://www.godesigns.us

  • #17144

    Thor Mauthe
    Participant

    I’m not a racer, but I am one of the Vegas locals. In my opinion karting doesn’t get the credit in the racing world that it deserves, but I can tell you that from a locals point of view there wasn’t enough exposure in town for the event. Yes, I agree that most of the buzz about Supernats is going to develop on the web. However even in town it wasn’t know that the event was going on.  There were no signs, there was no exposure. I know the weather for most of the days didn’t help any. My thing is that I never saw a sign or a billboard in town. Besides some banners in the hotel I didn’t see anything on it. There was no local news or newspaper coverage that I saw to draw people to the event. Why wasn’t there a kart on a stand at the front desk the week of the event that people can look at and ask what that’s all about. I’m sure a manufacturer would fess one up. Get the local guys here in town to help out. My son races locally and we have to do things to get the word out. I went to Coffee and Cars the weekend before and no one there knew about it. For being the “largest karting event” the marketing portion seems to be missing. In this town there are things you can do that aren’t out of the norm. What about the weekend before karts going down the Strip. I know you can coordinate that through the city. If the locals don’t even know about it how is anyone else?

    • #17441

      Steve Lewis
      Participant

      I’m not a racer, but I am one of the Vegas locals. In my opinion karting doesn’t get the credit in the racing world that it deserves, but I can tell you that from a locals point of view there wasn’t enough exposure in town for the event. Yes, I agree that most of the buzz about Supernats is going to develop on the web. However even in town it wasn’t know that the event was going on. There were no signs, there was no exposure. I know the weather for most of the days didn’t help any. My thing is that I never saw a sign or a billboard in town. Besides some banners in the hotel I didn’t see anything on it. There was no local news or newspaper coverage that I saw to draw people to the event. Why wasn’t there a kart on a stand at the front desk the week of the event that people can look at and ask what that’s all about. I’m sure a manufacturer would fess one up. Get the local guys here in town to help out. My son races locally and we have to do things to get the word out. I went to Coffee and Cars the weekend before and no one there knew about it. For being the “largest karting event” the marketing portion seems to be missing. In this town there are things you can do that aren’t out of the norm. What about the weekend before karts going down the Strip. I know you can coordinate that through the city. If the locals don’t even know about it how is anyone else?

       

      All things cost money.  We were perpared to supply a complete kart/motor package to put in lobby of the casino or at the entrance towards track.  Unfornately the cost outweighed the possible return.

  • #17148

    Rob Kozakowski
    Participant

    Haha!  Gary, you just got me thinking back to the days of Paul Harraka… always something interesting and often-times controversial back then…

    You’re right though.  Controversy still exists, but I think a lot of the top karting teams and drivers are approaching some of the controversy in a much more – shall we say – “professional” manner than they did in the past.  It’s not just that it can do harm to the sport, but to the image of the driver as well.  More drivers are aware of this today than in the past and choose not to go public with their complaints.  In a lot of ways, this has hurt the “buzz” for those not in attendance at the big events – but that’s just more reason to go and be part of it.

    I still remember going to the first 3 Supernats at X-Plex – when it was only shifters.  As much as I understand the reason for including TAG (and why it would hurt financially to get rid of it), it would be cool if the Supernats was still able to be all shifters.  The great thing back then was they had classes specifically for the guys who maybe didn’t belong in the S1/S2/top-level TAG classes.  The true “amateur” classes mixed into a program with the top-level guys  made the original event format real cool.

  • #17150

    Keith Bridgeman
    Participant

    It is true that there was less signage then normal.   Use to be an F1 car or a kart and poster boards.   There was nothing I saw in the gaming area.   A few people asked me what was going on out there.   If you where walking the strip you would have no idea. 

    Also if actual people came to watch that weren’t part of the event the two stands that where available aren’t enough.  I know there where two inside the pit area but they need to have three outside.   

    Also from years and years of going to AMA Motorcross and Superbike races which pit access is awesome.   If you really did want to look at karts and see what was going on.   The way the pits are set up is not good at all.   The rain made it worse but it is really hard to see much.  Its a pretty closed off atmosphere in that respect.  

    See they do 500 things right to pull this off but you can still find things that can be done better.   Every race series  you can always find something.

    http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/

  • #17260

    Bernard Muminovic
    Participant

    Bring back G1 just for the Supernats!

    KZ2 had 39 entries…I am sure G1 could easily be 30+ if they ever brought it back.

  • #17275

    Gary Osterholt
    Participant

    Bring back G1 just for the Supernats! KZ2 had 39 entries…I am sure G1 could easily be 30+ if they ever brought it back.

    And remove what class?

    TaG Cadet, Jr, Senior, Masters, S1, S2, S4, S5 are all ProTour classes.

    85, 62, 88, 44, 28, 62, 82, 27

    Those classes aren’t going anywhere.

    Rotax Jr – 41

    DD2 – 44

    KZ2 – 40

    Love or Hate the Morning/Afternoon deal, it works.  That leaves 16 groups in how the schedule is corrently laid out.

    Look at the entries 7 classes this year sold out.  (Either 40+ or 80+)

    2 Class were between 40-80 entries, both at 62.

    And two class were less than 40.  Which were s1 and S5, 2012 the entires in those classes were 24, 25.  2011 the entries in those classes were 24, 17.

    S1 will grow next year as more people move out of S2.  S5 will hopefully continue to grow with both in the 30+ next year.

    I know a lot thought KZ2 would be down this year.  Some even feared that it would be the last year for the class.  All due to the fact that most of the Europeans were at a race on that side of the pond.  But look at the entries  2013 – 40 , 2012 – 33. 2011 – 37

    Now moving on to next year, TaG Masters could probably pull in 60.  Which might only leave two other groups/classes.  KZ and what else?

    If you look at 44 per group.  The max number of entries would be 704.  And this year it was 603.  85%.  SKUSA is a business, so I know Tom and the gang will have the classes that will bring the most entries and will also make sure the “core” pro tour classes are featured.  And I know Tom loves the G1 class, as that’s the class he ran, but it is a business.

    Gary Osterholt
    GO Designs, LLC
    http://www.godesigns.us

  • #17278

    Bernard Muminovic
    Participant

    I totally get the small turn out during the pro tour for G1. BUT, for supernats this class can pull in 30-40 entries…I say don’t remove anything. Add it to the program. Since it is a business, an extra 30-40 entries would help the pockets :)

  • #17279

    Daryle Redlin
    Participant

    Personally I would love to see the G1 class back but its not going to happen. What I would love to see is a new emphasis on driver quality instead of driver quantity. If we take it to the extreme and stuff 700,800 or more drivers into the event do you really think it will be a better event because of it. I don’t. The S5 class would be full tomorrow if the ages were adjusted slightly. I think the sport needs a proper entry level shifter class and S5 is fine except for the fact that if your 15 you would move up and run with the adults. Doesnt really give a kid much time to learn how to drive a shifter before he/she is thrown to the wolves. If you started at 13 fine but I think most kids start in tag then decide to do shifter. When they dont get it right away they fade back to what they know better, I think thats way you havent seen the growth in the class.  To get back to the ” Buzz” of the event, because the days are long and there are so many drivers and classes I think the event just looses something because of it. Some of the racing is awesome and thats why I attend and race in the event, I just think that now that the event is heavily attended some attention should be given to raising the level of driving overall. The emphasis should now be on, ” If you race at the Supernats it means your damn good and your going to prove it, not by driving dirty but by displaying your pure talent and raw speed”. If you win the whole karting world should know it and the drivers should be showcased in some way. I think for the event to truely become something special a TV package of some sort has to be developed. An example is the Canadian Nationals. In the past every single class has been televised on TSN in Canada. In the US the SCCA Runoffs are also televised. The Supernats is certainly as large of an event as those two so why are none of the races televised?  With 600+ racers I’m sure there is a big enough group of people that can work together to get something going. That would certainly help build the ” Buzz”.

     

  • #17280

    Gary Osterholt
    Participant

    I totally get the small turn out during the pro tour for G1. BUT, for supernats this class can pull in 30-40 entries…I say don’t remove anything. Add it to the program. Since it is a business, an extra 30-40 entries would help the pockets :)

    Looks at the schedule you’ll see the event can ONLY have 16 groups.

    http://www.superkartsusa.com/dmdocuments/snats-xvii-competition-schedule.pdf

    On track schedule

    Wed. – 8am – 7:20pm

    Thur – 7:30am – 6:40pm

    Fri – 7:30am – 7pm

    Sat – 7:30am – 8:30pm

    Sun – 7am – 4:15pm

    Breaks – 40min, 30min, 30min, 30min, 20min

    I wasn’t there this year, but the 3 years prior the night always ended up going longer than scheduled.   I can only imagine with all the rain this year how long the days were.

    So honestly, where would you put G1?  People always comment about not enough practice or too short of a practice session.  So please tell us where to add another group or class?

     

    Gary Osterholt
    GO Designs, LLC
    http://www.godesigns.us

  • #17282

    Bernard Muminovic
    Participant

    Adding extra time to the overall program….Now that I think about it, it’s easier said then done…this will shift the awards ceremony to a later time as well…I do not know what the agreement with the Rio is…maybe skusa has a set number of days and hours they can rent the place…I guess all we can do is hold our breath and hopefully it might make a come back…

  • #17292

    Gary Osterholt
    Participant

    Personally I would love to see the G1 class back but its not going to happen. What I would love to see is a new emphasis on driver quality instead of driver quantity. If we take it to the extreme and stuff 700,800 or more drivers into the event do you really think it will be a better event because of it. I don’t.

    You are completely right.  The time schedule sets the number of groups, which in turn limits the number of drivers.

    SKUSA is one of the few US organizations that has a leader system, at least for the shifter guys, with S5 to S2 to S1.  And yes it would be great to have the best 40 or 80 drivers in every class, the issue is that the SuperNats is a one off event for some and is also part of a season long series for some.

    How do you get the best quality drivers?  After reading about the Rotax Worlds, even where you have to win your way there doesn’t always mean you are a quality driver in all aspects.

    It’s are hard thing for sure, glad it’s Tom and SKUSAs job to make all the decisions.  It’s obvisous over the years they are doing alot of stuff right (of course not every decision is the best), as the event continues to grow year after year.

    Gary Osterholt
    GO Designs, LLC
    http://www.godesigns.us

  • #17298

    Rob Howden
    Keymaster

    Just to add in a little commentary, here is what I believe you can expect for the 2014 SuperNationals:

    1. Live Video – EKN will be producing a live streaming video broadcast in cooperation with SKUSA – my goal is to then use that footage to put together a show for one of the cable channels like MAVTV

    2. The class numbers will shrink to shorten the days – I highly doubt any classes will be added at this time

    3. KZ will return to the line-up thanks to strong domestic participation this year in the absence of some of the factory efforts

    4. A increased focus will be put on improving the quality of the racing

    5. There will be an expansion in purse money and prizes

    It’s all about small improvements each year to make sure the race gets better and better.

    Rob Howden - eKartingNews.com Publisher / Editor - @RobHowden

  • #17312

    James McMahon
    Participant

    I wonder how much of the DD2 participation was related to the closeness of the Rotax Worlds at NOLA?
    Can’t deny the DD2 competition was impressive.
    As for G1, I can’t see it coming back. Just run KZ haha.

    No matter what the class is, you are battling with “the wolves” at the Supernats, thats what makes the event so great.

    I guess one approach would be to move the event to a larger and or wider track to accomodate more karts simultaneously, but the event seems to be so popular at the Rio I think I’d be hesitant to change that.
    Otherwise, perhaps the junior and senior classes need to be different events et-all?

  • #17333

    Daryle Redlin
    Participant

    G1 would be great, I raced the class myself years ago, when it went away I actually entered SuperPro/KZ. I didnt do to bad afterall I was 40 yrs old at the time, didnt get lapped or black flagged. Wasnt in the top 10 either but those guys were some of the best drivers I have ever raced with. To explain the level of driver quality in that class I remember in one of the practice sessions Fritz Leesmann came up behind me. He was faster so he just gave me a little nudge to let me know he was there and wanted to move through, I simply moved slightly off line and he went through and I tucked in behind him. No harm, no foul. I thought to myself at the time that this is how all racers should be. It was actually one of the most enjoyable races I have ever done even though didnt have the horsepower to truly compete. The best drivers dont crash unless it truly is an accident. This type of ” professional ” driver approach is what we all need to promote. The Supernats should be the race that we showcase it at the highest level. I think the changes that Rob has talked about will be great and make the event better.

     

  • #17426

    lynn haddock
    Participant

    Not to be trying to be negative because the SKUSA crew did a good job under trying conditions but I gotta be honest, this year the S-Nat’s was a damn miserable place to be — a bit of rain is one thing but I got in Wednesday night and never saw anything that resembled dry until Sunday. The racing Sunday was good but overall, this years event was a disappointment thanks to mother nature. Wet, cold, windy,,,, it just sucked.

    That’s why no buzz.

  • #17429

    David Womack
    Participant

    It was the first time I had both a river and a lake in a pit stall I worked in.  A miserable 3 days of rain and cold. If it wasn’t for going to Nove Italiano and Sushi Samba, the whole trip would have been a bust. At least we got to have a dry day Sunday.

  • #17444

    Thor Mauthe
    Participant

    Steve,

    Very interesting about the cost. I send you a PM.

  • #17448

    Ross Karlsson
    Participant

    The rain was the main dampner on the event this year, one day might not have been to bad but three days of it made for longer days, plus standing around in the rain watching even for the dedicated starts to wear thin. The rain did help mix up the fields and watching the drivers that were used to wet weather racing carve their way thru the traffic was good (Ben Cooper in DD2 was great to watch in the wet), then on Super Sunday those that managed to make the finals that maybe in the dry would of been starting further forward were able to show their ability as they worked forward thru the feilds.

    Streaming live on the net like the Rotax worlds does would be great for those that can’t attend who want to watch from elsewhere in the world.

    As for media coverage Karting is still a minority sport so will always struggle to attrack the major media outlets but having top stars from other divisions will help as does a good result. With Matt Hamilton’s win in S4 it got a full page in the Automotive section of the major Daily in NZ plus mention of the rest of the team that had gone up and made it to the finals.

    DD2 drew good numbers due to the fact there was a ticket to next years world finals at stake.

  • #17492

    Oscar Aguilera
    Participant

    im not trying to add classes or take away.  i think leave it alone.  everything is fine considering how well the races seem to race over the days involved.  the thread was about the buzz…. if i post to instagram,,, i can share it to a number of other sites like facebook.  IMO that is why there is less buzz on here.  IMO there should be a link from the ekn twitter that shares all posts to a forum section that can be posted too from twitter.

    if i write something or post a pic…why would i then come on here to talk about it?

    if the forum section that posted twitter could then be posted on from a person on that section????dont know if you can make that happen?  but th

    so who can make a section called Kart Twitter that would scroll all the twitter posts with a related has tag….named by the moderator?  ie….#RMC  #SKUSA17.  this would drive peeps to this site to see what the hashtag is and then all involved would use the hashtag. then others can start following

    IMO the forums should be helpful and less drama.  they should be about getting people into karting and giving advice to those that need it.  and if the pics we post from races were somehow posted to this site…there would be more traffic.  i would rather see pics and how things are going from the race in the first place.  and now with short vids thrown in…it makes it more possible to check in.

    i dont think any monies need to be spent promoting the event because there is no payout to the promoters of the event for spectators….

    i honestly havent been to a supernats since the first one that wasnt called supernats…so not sure what things can be done to make more money for skusa.

    concessions would be where i focused IMO.

    if the casino advertises on radio i know it is pretty easy for them to get an exchange of ad time for interviews with some representatives that has something interesting to talk about.  have a driver get interviewed.  have some show girts go with the driver…discuss something about the race, casino, etc.  i did that here in houston with the dog racing track that advertised on the radio.

    just my opinion

  • #18154

    Chris Jennings
    Participant

    I know this is a little off the main topic but I want to touch on some comments made within the thread.  Here are my opinions whatever they are worth.

    As for the split schedule I think it’s very smart.  You have to remember that this race is in Vegas.  It’s an attraction.  Many of the racers that come do so because they can bring their entire family and enjoy this as a race and a fun vacation.  If you keep everyone on the track all day long then they are too tired to enjoy the destination and friends and family members get tired of sitting at the track all day long.  This is also what attracts most of the international competitors.  Vegas is known world wide and everyone wants to come here.  A race is a great excuse to come here as long as you have time to enjoy it as well.  Some would say that this race is only for the best drivers to show up and nothing else matters.  Sure, the top 10 or so of each class shares this mentality which will be the same top 10 at every big race.  However you can not support a series/national event year after year with only the best participating in it.  Look at what happened to STARS of Karting.  I raced with that series during its peak and all the way to its death.  Why?  It got to where it was so serious and expensive that only the drivers that had a chance of finishing top 10 or better would show up because it cost so much money to race and everyone else just stayed home.  You could watch the front guys battle it out but what fun is that when the field is small?  Of course this had a lot to do with the engine rules vs. our now stock spec moto rules.

    I think allowing anyone to show up at the SuperNats or any ProTour race (within reason) is great for the health of this sport.  Making people qualify like Rotax does only frustrates people and eventually will stop racing local races because they are already out of contention of getting a punch.  It leads to discouragement.  I see this kind of behavior at our local track all the time.

    This sport is already small and niche enough, any kind of rule that makes you qualify to go to the next race only hinders the growth.  No matter what you will still see the same fast guys at the front whether there are 80 in the filed or 30 in the field.  It’s just more exciting with 80.   :)

  • #17053

    Henry Smythe
    Participant

     

    Threads in general seem Slower. That’s like saying a kid kart is a little slower than a shifter. Threads that used to get a new post every hour or so now go days or just die. That’s contagious and just gets worse. Unfortunately it was also predictable but apparently ignored when the forum was changed. Brian

    I have to agree. An awesome forum has been destroyed because one guy refused to listen.

     

  • #17290

    Gary Osterholt
    Participant

    Adding extra time to the overall program….Now that I think about it, it’s easier said then done…this will shift the awards ceremony to a later time as well…I do not know what the agreement with the Rio is…maybe skusa has a set number of days and hours they can rent the place…I guess all we can do is hold our breath and hopefully it might make a come back…

    Honestly, look at the schedule.  You can’t add more groups.  The max is 16 groups.  Unless you cut the 3 heat races.  Which is nearly impossible when you have the ABCD format for the heats with karts over 40.

    Friday a driver is on track 3 times.  practice, qualifying and 1st heat race.

    Saturday if you add another group the day that’s already 13+ hours long will be even longer.

    Note:  I have NO afflication with SKUSA.  I’ve just been around the sport long enough to see that scheduling a race is alot harder than most people realize.

     

    Gary Osterholt
    GO Designs, LLC
    http://www.godesigns.us

  • #17344

    Rick Smith
    Participant

    I was honestly a bit surprised DD2 pulled in as many entries as it did. But it was good to see that adding the class ended up being a positive. It was also good to see KZ2 stay alive and well with a solid turnout, and in relation to that I want to give a shout to my boy Matt Jaskol, how about his weekend eh? 4th in S1 and from last to 21st in a last minute KZ entry. Even with the rain I still had a great time attending and as always, I look forward to next year. One of these days i’ll get my crap together and participate so I can cross the second most important item off my bucket list: racing at the Supernats, which will hopefully lead to item #1: Win the Supernats lol

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