Tag Classes

[Richard talbert]

So, question! Why are the major karting series going main stream with there 125 tag classes? Back when I was trying to break into tag kart racing, trying to find an engine I could afford; there were open tag classes. Now, it’s either Rotax or Iame! Even with the WKA! Why is this? I feel like I’m  being forced to buy a $3,000 engine when I can spend that on an F2000 race weekend or Champ car. Which, would be much more memorable. Anyone care to explain?

[Richard talbert]

Minus the Rok Cup, there practically throwing engines at people!

[Gary Osterholt]

The engines were not equal.  At the local level it can work, but most likely the fastest engine will be the one you want/need.

On the National level in the last few years of the TaG class you would see people show up with multiple engines to try in practice to see what was the fastest.

Gary Osterholt
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.us

[Richard talbert]

Thanks Gary for responding! That explains some but not everything. It’s sad that you spend 10k on brand new equipment and can only race on one national series with out having to buy a different engine to compete in another one. I think the ROK cup understands the customers with there affordable engine rentals. As for fair, just about every auto racing series have multiple engines and car manufactures. And all the racing seems equal except for Formula 1, which is suppose to be a spec series. If weights are not enough add restrictors, there suppose to be Pro series. For example, they told Cadillac to dial back their engines for being to fast in the Prototype class.

[TJ Koyen]

I answered in your other post, but I’ll add here as well.

You can rent an X30 or Rotax for a weekend as well. You don’t need to drop 10k on brand new everything right off the bat.

The thing about those multi-make series you mentioned is that the cars and engines are all designed to a set spec, so they’re all relatively similar and can compete together with minor adjustments to ballast or whatever. The mixed engine TaG class had a bunch of engines never designed to compete together, so it was next to impossible to balance. They tried for years and never really nailed it.

Also not sure where you get the idea that F1 is a “spec series”. It’s literally the opposite, nothing is spec minus a few auxiliary parts.

Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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[Richard talbert]

Thanks for responding TJ. Do you have any prices for renting a Rotax or X30 motor?

[Clark Gaynor Sr.]

Currently in WKA road racing in the TAG Heavy class, there are (11) eleven legal engines.  Ready?  Cheetah SQ 125; Easykart IAME & BMB; Motori Seven; Stock Parilla Leopard; Ported Parilla Leopard; Parilla X30; PRD Fire Ball; Rotax FR125; Sonik TX; Sonik VX; and the Vortex Rok TT.  There is an ATTEMPT to make them somewhat equal using various minimum weights.  It does NOT work!!

A number of these engines I have never seen.  Some aren’t made anymore.  And some I can’t imagine where you could get one or parts for them.

Hands down the most popular engines in the class are the X30’s, Leopards, maybe a couple PRD’s and maybe a couple Rotax’s.  It seems like a second class for the IAME Sprint folks who want to run more.

Currently at Daytona and I know with the WKC, the IAME Sprint class is the biggest by a margin.  IAME Sprint is for MY03 and MY09 Leopards; and the X30’s, all IAME products.

I’m sure if you searched hard enough, you could find an old Easykart motor for a couple hundred bucks. But it would be so far off, why would you bother?  Or a Sonik which isn’t made anymore?

I hear what you’re saying, but if you want to be competitive, there are only a couple choices in any series.  And in most series, it’s a single engine.  And those ARE the most popular classes.

Have a good one,

Clark Gaynor Sr.

[Richard talbert]

Thanks for responding Clark but I don’t believe in road racing go karts. And I don’t mean any disrespect by this. I will run a race car track with a race car and a kart track with a kart. Has anyone tried restrictors or just weights? I’ll stick to sprint racing!

[TJ Koyen]

Don’t know much about Rotax, but last time I rented one it was like 700 for the weekend, several years ago.

X30s are available for roughly the same price from several builders.

Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
www.facebook.com/oktanevisual
www.instagram.com/oktanevisual

[Bob Kurkowski]

Just out of curiosity, how much actual seat time per event does $700.00 get you ?

Bob K.

[TJ Koyen]

Bob,

Typically engines are rented by the day, so that 700 weekend rental fee would get you all your practice time Friday and all your sessions Saturday and Sunday.

Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
www.facebook.com/oktanevisual
www.instagram.com/oktanevisual

[Richard talbert]

Clark Gaynor Sr. wrote:

Currently in WKA road racing in the TAG Heavy class, there are (11) eleven legal engines. Ready? Cheetah SQ 125; Easykart IAME & BMB; Motori Seven; Stock Parilla Leopard; Ported Parilla Leopard; Parilla X30; PRD Fire Ball; Rotax FR125; Sonik TX; Sonik VX; and the Vortex Rok TT. There is an ATTEMPT to make them somewhat equal using various minimum weights. It does NOT work!! A number of these engines I have never seen. Some aren’t made anymore. And some I can’t imagine where you could get one or parts for them. Hands down the most popular engines in the class are the X30’s, Leopards, maybe a couple PRD’s and maybe a couple Rotax’s. It seems like a second class for the IAME Sprint folks who want to run more. Currently at Daytona and I know with the WKC, the IAME Sprint class is the biggest by a margin. IAME Sprint is for MY03 and MY09 Leopards; and the X30’s, all IAME products. I’m sure if you searched hard enough, you could find an old Easykart motor for a couple hundred bucks. But it would be so far off, why would you bother? Or a Sonik which isn’t made anymore? I hear what you’re saying, but if you want to be competitive, there are only a couple choices in any series. And in most series, it’s a single engine. And those ARE the most popular classes. Have a good one, Clark Gaynor Sr.

I apologize sincerely if  I’m wrong but what I see from F1 from on TV, there a spec series from what they say. Build your chassis to this spec and keep your engine to this hp. Sounds spec to me, they clearly don’t say it’s a spec series with there manufactures rules. I’m sorry this is coming from a fan.

[Gary Osterholt]

Richard talbert wrote:

I apologize sincerely if I’m wrong but what I see from F1 from on TV, there a spec series from what they say. Build your chassis to this spec and keep your engine to this hp. Sounds spec to me, they clearly don’t say it’s a spec series with there manufactures rules. I’m sorry this is coming from a fan.

I get what you are saying, they (FIA) come up with rules and everything is built within the rules.  That’s not what happened with the TAG class, it was the opposite.  The only thing that was similar with the TAG was all but one was a 125cc 2 cycle.  The rules were made after the engines were built.

The TAG classes had engines with different bore and stroke, different ignition, different max rev’s, different type of carbs, different size of carbs, different type of exhaust.

With all these differences one engine would always have  an advantage on a certain track.  Nothing could be done easily that would work on all types of track.  You had 10 pounds to the Rotax on one track it would get killed and on another track it would be the engine to have.

The point is, even back in the TAG glory days you had to have multiple types of engine if you ran the National scene.  I know I remember one WKA race where a TAG driver showed up with three karts with three different engines on practice day.

Gary Osterholt
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.us

[Richard talbert]

Now, I can kind of understand from the facts being stated from Vets. What I still can’t understand is how a pro auto racing series like IMSA Weather Tech can restrict their motors and weight and a pro kart series can’t. May be one day in layman’s land where a 125cc engine can be restricted! (Moto Cross). Maybe they should change the rules so the engine makers can do so. Oh yea, there not American! And to add, money from three engine brands is better then one. Last time I checked , Americans liked to have options!

Facts!!!

[Richard talbert]

Richard talbert wrote:

Now, I can kind of understand from the facts being stated from Vets. What I still can’t understand is how a pro auto racing series like IMSA Weather Tech can restrict their motors and weight and a pro kart series can’t. May be one day in layman’s land where a 125cc engine can be restricted! (Moto Cross). Maybe they should change the rules so the engine makers can do so. Oh yea, there not American! And to add, money from three engine brands is better then one. Last time I checked , Americans liked to have options! Facts!!!

Where’s  the aftermarket parts when you need them?

[Dan Breuer]

In reference to the “spec” piece, thought about it for a minute and I think this should make the idea a little clearer.

“Spec” series in most racing really refers to specified (a ‘spec’ engine might be an IAME X-30), not a reference to allowing people to build to a specification as in F1. The parts are built by one manufacturer to a specification to help maintain cost and equality…

[Richard talbert]

Thanks for responding Dan. I understand clearly the spec meaning now. I was thinking hp restrictions or restrictors of some sort. I just see a bright future with tag and I wish to see the sport grow. I honestly would like to see and hear different engine makes; like in IMSA. As for stock Honda or shifters, I would like to see a stock Kawasaki, KTM, Suzuki and Yamaha in the mix like moto x. It just seems like more money and sponsors for the sport. Just a thought!

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