Missing motor – Advice needed

[Pete Schaible]

I sent my ICC motor off to be rebuilt 10 weeks ago.  The builder received it, rebuilt it, I paid for it and they shipped it back to me on 9/05.  Somewhere after that UPS lost the motor.  The builder only insured it for $1000 and replacement value is somewhere around $2500 for a rebuilt  K9B motor.  It has now been 2 months since my motor went missing and all the builder keeps offering me is the $1000 insurance check.  It seems that by law the shipper is responsible for replacement value, however the builder seems to think it is the shipping company’s responsibility.  Meanwhile I have no motor and already have money tied up in repairing the cylinder ( different company) and the cost of the rebuild, plus I lost a decent chance at the series championship as I didn’t have the kart for the last 3 events.

Have any builders or vendors run into a problem like this?  How did you handle it? How long is reasonable to wait for UPS to investigate and issue a check?  Do I have any options other than court if the builder refuses to replace the motor or its replacement value?

I am not mentioning the company’s  name, and if you think you know  please don’t post it.  I just want to resolve an issue and not try to damage a company’s reputation.

[andy metzger]

Pete

Simply put, the shipper ( your engine builder) dropped the ball. UPS’s liability is limited to $100 on shipments with no declared value. An option is available to insure packages up to $50,000 at a rate of $.35 per 100 dollars. IMO the builder should have spent another $ 5.25 to insure your engine for it’s full value of $2500 or at least contacted you to make that decision, as I am sure he passed the shipping charges on to you.If UPS dosn’t find the engine within 30 days they will send you a check for $1000,which is their full liability in this case.

Andy

 

[Pete Schaible]

Andy, UPS won’t deal with me at all.  All they will tell me is to  “Talk to the shipper”.  They will send the insurance check to the builder.  I just called UPS a few days ago to see if the claim has been submitted with all necessary information and they won’t even tell me that.  Everything is in the shippers hands and I have nothing.

 

[andy metzger]

Pete

UPS will only pay a claim up to the limit of their liability and not a penny more. That is a contract entered into by the shipper. I would ask the shipper why they only insured for 1000 when the engine is worth 2500. Did you have an agreement with the builder to except the risk if it engine was lost or damaged to save the additional $ 5.25 insurance cost? If not IMO the builder should except responsibility for, as it turns out, a poor decision.

Andy

[Pete Schaible]

I know UPS will only cover what the item has been insured for.  I don’t know why he choose $1000, especially because I paid for shipping.  I  insured it for $1500 BEFORE the rebuild when I shipped the motor.  We never discussed insurance at all, I just got an invoice from them and it included shipping charges.  An attorney I spoke to said the insurance is there to protect the SELLER not the recipient.  The financial responsibility is on the shipper but I’m not sure how to get him to understand that without going to court.

Any suggestions?

 

[andy metzger]

Pete

Your attorney is correct the shipper is responsible while it is in his care then it becomes the carriers until it accepted by the consigne.Since the shipper understated the value the difference remains the shippers responsibility.I take it that the builder will not make this right by sending you a check or replacing the engine.Court is an option as well a few others that I would discuss with you in private.

Andy

[Pete Schaible]

Agreed Paul,  If it was something I bought I would call the Credit card company and dispute the charge.  Because it is my property to start with all I could do is dispute the cost of the rebuild.

Andy, Feel free to PM me anything you wouldn’t want to post publicly.

[Walt Gifford]

DO NOT take another engine as payment. Know your time limits for filing action. Good luck.

Gif

FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
41 years karting experience

[Pete Schaible]

Thank you Walt, I didn’t even think of that.  I assume your saying that because I won’t know what condition the motor I receive is in and I may end up with another blown motor?  I’m naive, I’m an honest guy and expect others to be the same way.  This is also why I will be hand delivering my KT100 to you and NOT shipping it.

Has anyone had something like this actually happen to them?  Walt have you ever had a motor not received by the customer?

[Scott Boito]

I’ve had a shipping problem in the recent past that ended up costing me some additional money, but my builder never made the shipping company’s problem my problem.  I assume he insured the motor properly and got a check from them, but I was never on the hook for anything because he took full responsibility for the shipment and took care of everything on his side.  That’s exactly how it should have gone down and what I would expect from any reputable builder.

Fortunately (for me) I can’t offer any advice on how to pursue the money from your builder because I don’t think it’s your responsibility in the first place.  While it’s a hard pill to swallow by your builder, he’s going to have to pay up sooner or later and he might as well bite the bullet now before his name is exposed and he loses his reputation and future money as a result of not doing the right thing like he should have already…

[andy metzger]

Pete

Call me tonight @ 6

Andy

[Brian Degulis]

I’ve been down this road. The builder shipped it under his acount. Leagaly the builder included shipping the engine back to you as part of the job you paid him for. Legaly the builder is your shipping company and resposible for your engine untill you get it back. Your re course is whith the builder.

Brian

[Pete Schaible]

Thank you Scott and Brian. This is the real world experience I was hoping for. Brian how did you end up getting things settled?
Scott you have a good point, if it goes to court it will be public record and it may affect the company’s reputation.

[Daryle Redlin]

I realize that some time has passed however it is very rare for a package to go completly missing. Usually its sitting in one of the warehouses without the tracking info attached to it any longer. Since the staff dont know what to do with it, it just sits. UPS should be able to give you the last tracking location. We just had this same issue with one of our products, it was a multi-piece shipment and one of the boxes was lost. It took Fedex about 8 days to sort it out. I would work with the engine builder and push them to get UPS’s tracking department to do a physical search. They dont like doing them but if you push hard enough they may still be able to find the package. I’m not picking sides but its not the engine builders fault that UPS lost the package. Its unfortunalte that it wasnt insured for the correct value but I dont think the engine builder was malicious in their intent. I would push UPS hard to get your package found and returned. Just my two cents. Good Luck.

 

[Walt Gifford]

Pete Schaible wrote:

Walt have you ever had a motor not received by the customer?

Never had that happen but after reading this I’ll pay more attention to how much insurance I put on things. I don’t really send engines through the mail anyway but, I’m not in it for the money anymore.

Gif

FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
41 years karting experience

[Pete Schaible]

Walt, if you did have an underinsured motor go missing, how would YOU handle it as a builder?

[Brian Degulis]

Pete In my case I was the shipper. I shipped a customer a $3500 propeller I forgot to add the insurance and UPS lost it. How you lose a 120Lb prop is beyond me but that’s what happened. So I shipped the customer another prop no charge UPS eventually gave me the $1000 included insurance I licked my wounds and called it a day.

 

There is no mystery here the builder is responsible.  Ask him how he would react if you shipped the engine un insured and it got lost on the way to his shop and you were expecting him to pay for it?

 

Brian

[Jim Russell, Jr]

This is not our shipment.

We do ship lots of customers equipment back and forth. We always ship with full replacement value insurance on the items. If for some reason we didn’t we would replace the product to the customer at our expense. If we didn’t we would lose reputation.

I know I would rather hear company 123 made a mistake and didn’t insure my item. It got lost (or damaged) and they took care of it.

Hearing stories like these is just poor customer service.

Only time full insurance does not happen is per customers request. We make if very clear that if something happens to the package the customer is gambling with the items. Usually only on international shipments where they are worried about tax, theft, or bribery issues.

[Pete Schaible]

Jim, I thank you for your perspective as a business owner.  Without the experience of owning a business I can only imagine how I would handle things.  I didn’t mean in any way that this post puts suspicion on any business or builder’s reputation.  That is the main reason I won’t post the builders name , I wish I could talk about how they fixed the problem and did the right thing.  They do still have a chance to make it right and I hope they do.

Brian, I did ask him exactly that question.  I asked him if he would be expected to pay for the motor if I shipped it to him and he didn’t receive.  That stinks about the missing prop.  I imagine I would have done the same as you.  Fix the problem for the customer by getting them their order, then settling up with the shipping company.  As much as it stinks, I assume that is the cost of doing business sometime.

[Brian Degulis]

It is part of the cost of doing bussiness. That customer with the lost prop ordered a boat from us a year later in part because we did the right thing with the prop. Doing the honerable thing always pays off in the long run Plus it makes it easier to face the guy in the mirror.

Brian

[Thomas Barth]

Thanks Pete for airing your laundry out on EKN. I have not received the insurance check from UPS yet as I told you. I also had decided to find another engine and put it in top shape.

(I don’t know where you are getting your pricing but it boggles the mind that a K9B is worth $2500.00. Did you pay that much for a used KZ?)

I am at the point now where I think you should sue me. If I have to watch you drag this through the mud, I’m all for it. I have no control over how UPS handles the claim. Hopefully the check comes soon. But in the meantime I suggest that you get some hard evidence together that your K9B is worth 2K+.

You’re probably right, you should have found a reputable re-builder.

A customer of mine in West Chester physically searched the address with no luck.

I would apologize but I did nothing wrong. I shipped your engine and it was lost by the shipper. I understand I am legally responsible. We may have to let that play out.

tdb/GFK

[Scott Boito]

Way to completely miss the point, Tom!  The simple facts:

You rebuilt a motor

You shipped the motor

You insured the motor for only $1000

The motor was lost by the shipping company – which is why you insure the item for the value of the item…

I’ve never seen a TM K9B for sale for less than $2000

You’ve managed to expose yourself on here – Pete didn’t do it.  Congrats!

[Larry Andrews]

[James McMahon]

Well that escalated quickly!

[Rod Hawkins]

Thomas Barth wrote:

Thanks Pete for airing your laundry out on EKN. I have not received the insurance check from UPS yet as I told you. I also had decided to find another engine and put it in top shape. (I don’t know where you are getting your pricing but it boggles the mind that a K9B is worth $2500.00. Did you pay that much for a used KZ?) I am at the point now where I think you should sue me. If I have to watch you drag this through the mud, I’m all for it. I have no control over how UPS handles the claim. Hopefully the check comes soon. But in the meantime I suggest that you get some hard evidence together that your K9B is worth 2K+. You’re probably right, you should have found a reputable re-builder. A customer of mine in West Chester physically searched the address with no luck. I would apologize but I did nothing wrong. I shipped your engine and it was lost by the shipper. I understand I am legally responsible. We may have to let that play out. tdb/GFK

 

wow, really?

 

I have no idea what motor that is, so I did a quick search.  First one I found, rebuilt for $3,400!!!!  Here is the link.  Maybe $2,500 sounds pretty good.

 

http://www.kartspeedmotorsports.com/pre-owned/engines/401-tm

[Rod Hawkins]

and the second one I found, $3,000.  Ad is a couple years old.

 

http://www.kartbook.net/forum/topics/for-sale-tm-k9b-kz2-motor-with-everything-ready-to-go-dr-m92-kz2?commentId=2879226%3AComment%3A592939

[Pete Schaible]

Tom will be building me another motor and I have complete faith in his knowledge and his abilities.  He really is a nice guy in a bad situation and I’m sure the frustration got to him.  It’s easy to look from the outside and say what should have happened but as a small business owner it has to be hard to take a loss like that.  Tom is very passionate about karting and the TM series of motors.  When things go wrong that passion can cause a momentary lapse in judgement and I think that is what happened with his post.

I WILL continue to do business with him as I think his passion for the sport motivates him to do his best all the time and to see his products and service be top notch.

[andy metzger]

Mr Barth

I can tell you that I ship hundreds of packages via UPS weekly and whenever I have a claim for loss or damage I get a check from them within 2 weeks.I love the statement ” I have decided to find another engine and put it in top shape”, did you ask your customer if he was alright with that? You also stated ” I understand I am legally responsible”, have you ever herd the phrase morally bankrupt? PLease do the right thing and send the man a check !

Pete

Looks like you a getting the run around here. If it were me and I paid with a credit card I would dispute the charges,remeber you only have 60 days from receipt of statement to do that. I would also give Mr Barth a time limit to settle on the balance and if that day comes and goes I would file in small claims court as he wishes.

Good luck !

Andy

 

[Brian Degulis]

Sounds like you got it resolved Pete and that’s good. I’ve dealt with tom a few times and always got good advice along with what I needed when promised at a fair price. Sometimes emotions temporarily cloud judgment happens to all of us.

Brian

[andy metzger]

Looks like my post was a minute too late.

Mr Barth thanks for doing the right thing!!!!!!

Andy

 

[Thomas Barth]

Sorry guys,

My mistake. Pete and I are discussing what we will do to replace his motor.

tdb/GFK

[Pete Schaible]

Brian, I really feel that is what happened.  Tom has always been helpful, polite, and has worked with me since I got into karting.  I talked to him at length today and he REALLY has put a lot of work into trying to resolve this with UPS, including having someone he knew actually looking for the package in the West Chester shipping hub,  Only problem was he never told me, so it looked to me like he wasn’t doing anything.

Hopefully this can be a learning experience for us all.  Sellers and Builders, insure your stuff for full value and pass that cost onto the consumer.  Consumers, don’t beat up the company over shipping charges.  Let them do what they need to protect themselves.

[russ Jolly]

Never thought about loosing an engine, and have done businees with Tom before and had positive results. I will gladly return to him dispite this issue.

[Paul Kish]

I think you need to take the check without expressing or agreeing it’s a complete settlement, sue the builder for the difference if there not willing to make it up to you, and let the builder worry about getting reimbursed from UPS.  It’s the builders fault and problem they didn’t insure it for enough, not your problem.

Your only problem is getting compensated for the builder not returning the engine to you.

Your not a customer in this , of UPS.  They took a package from your builder and they assume the person they took the package from owns what’s in the package.  They don’t care if who receives the package owns what’s in it or not.

Brake, Insert 'arc', Turn, Accelerate

[Pete Schaible]

Daryle, I know it didn’t totally disappear but UPS never had a tracking location for it. It said a shipping label was printed and they would update when it reached a UPS facility. After the lost package tracer it listed “West chester” PA as the location, but that was 7 weeks ago. They told me when I reported it missing they would do a physical search for it. If UPS is still looking I’ll wait. UPS won’t tell me anything because I’m not the shipper, and the builder doesn’t know what is going on.

Your perspective and others is why I posted this. I know I’m not the only one that has had an issue like this, and I’m curious how others have resolved issues like this.

[Author]

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