Home Forums General Karting Discussion EDM process on Cylinders

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    • #31868
      patrick j slattery
      Participant

      For the last two years I have been hearing this is being done by some engine builders to achieve a 360 to 380 blow down on Yamaha cylinders.  Don’t know if it is true and wonder why if it is being done why no official can detect it, or is it just one of those rumors with no fact behind it.   Seems like when someone is fast, that is the first thing we hear is that he has one of those low blowdown motor.

      Any thought on this

       

      Pat Slattery

       

    • #31877
      Walt Gifford
      Participant

      It’s just hot air from people that don’t understand engines.

      Gif

      FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
      Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
      Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
      41 years karting experience

    • #31890
      patrick j slattery
      Participant

      Possibly,  but I know creditable people that have seen 380 to 360 blow down on Yamaha cylinders.

    • #31907
      John Kuntze
      Participant

      It’s being done if you walk in the shop and ask for it the shop will deny doing it.

    • #31962
      Walt Gifford
      Participant

      How do you know it’s being done then?

      FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
      Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
      Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
      41 years karting experience

      • #32026
        John Kuntze
        Participant

        If you are in the right circle you can get your motor EDM’d you just can’t be someone walking off the street and expect to get it done. If you don’t believe it’s happening you are only fooling yourself.

    • #31966
      Dan Schlosser
      Participant

      Simple rules change fixes this and eliminates $3000 Yamahas…..

       

    • #32000
      Mike Burrell
      Participant

      Lol! I wrote an article on this in National Kart News a few years ago & created a pretty big poop storm… Yes, it happens. And the EDM expert I talked to showed me a chart with different ‘textures’ he could cut too & assured me we could “hide” the EDM process rather easily.

      As Dan said, a simple rules change eliminates this… Simply say “blowdown has to be between X & Y and we (sanctioning body) don’t care how you get it there.”

      Research I did shows machining a cylinder would add $150 to the blueprinting costs and eliminate the need for EDM and/or the “pot luck” or search for a “national cylinder” ( adding $600-1500 more in costs). Also, I never remember “blowdown” being an issue with the old open Pipe engines…

      So to answer the initial question: yes some people do/did EDM cylinders and yes it makes a significant difference on Supercan motors.

       

    • #32312
      kenny lawson
      Participant

      Hence, the claiming rule? Or do we really need to go back to that just to stop this measure?

    • #32313
      Jim Howe
      Participant

      As one of the lower-buck teams, I absolutely endorse Mike’s idea that blowdown becomes just another “spec” for engine builders. Though it would add some cost to my engine bill, it would be minimal — $300 to $600 more, according to my engine builder — and at least would put me on equal footing with those big-buck teams.

    • #32327
      Troy Berry
      Participant

      Holy smokes, three to six hundred for blowdown? You should be able to get that much cheaper when you come to the great state of Nevada for the Supernats! (sorry, couldn’t help myself, too easy. Lol)

      "The Art is in the details"
      BirelArt AM29 LO206
      Intrepid Cruiser KA 100

    • #32336
      Walt Gifford
      Participant

      If they come up with a new tech rule they should allow any surface finish so Joe plumber can do it with a file for free.

      Gif

      FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
      Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
      Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
      41 years karting experience

    • #32337
      Mike Burrell
      Participant

      You’re exactly right Walt. “Here’s a number, get there how you want!”

    • #32345
      Dan Schlosser
      Participant

      We either have, or manage programs that have, very strong hand picked “national caliber” engines that surely meet the blowdown numbers. Despite devaluing what we own or manage, we wholeheartedly support the move to an acceptable range without the need to disguise the work.

      Sometimes you have to be willing to sacrifice a little personally for the long term good of the sport.

       

       

    • #32347
      Tom Varner
      Participant

      WKA allows Cadet Chassis in Yamaha JR Sportsman in Man Cup – costs everyone money – Why?

      WKA allows new tires both days in Man Cup – more money

      USPKS goes from 6″ to 7″ rear wheels for Yamaha JR – costs everyone money -Why?

      At least USPKS requires that the same tire is run both days

      WKA and USPKS won’t allow EDM to save everyone money – Why ?

      Driving the little teams out – look at the recent kart counts at USPKS and WKA –

      Who are these series really for ?

    • #32348
      Tom Varner
      Participant

      BTY – when WKA added Cadet Chassis to Yamaha Jr Sportsman – the Competition Committee voted against it – WKA leadership did it anyway –

      follow the money !!!

    • #32367
      patrick j slattery
      Participant

      I can verify what Tom said about the Cadet kart.  How is the Cadet class going in WKA now.  :)

      Tom, it is my understanding that WKA is going to require Jr classes to run 7:10 rears next year also,  which will put another nice bill to the karters, not to mention what are you going to do with your wheels for the 6:00 tires.

       

      The problem I see with EDM is some engine builders try to play by the rules and are very protective about there reputation as to building illegal engines and only want to build motors that are 100 percent legal.  When you build an engine and if they are using EDM to enhance the performance, regardless that it can’t be seen it is still illegal, but the honest engine builder and his customers are the one’s who pay the price.

      We saw this a few years ago when some were cutting the pistons, it was illegal but it hurt the honest engine builders.  I hope we don’t go down that road again

       

    • #32705
      Dan Schlosser
      Participant

      We are already there Pat. The fix is easy – I have yet to hear a single compelling argument to why the rules are not changed. If I’m missing something, someone please enlighten me.

       

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