Home Forums Chassis & Handling Ask TJ

This topic contains 22 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  FREDDY SANDOVAL 4 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #37308

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Ok TJ you’ve had enough rest in the forums.. Can we discuss rear tire coning reasons and remedies please? Thanks

  • #37344

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    You’re talking excess wearing on the inner edge I’m assuming?

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #37348

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Yeppers, my take is the kart isn’t rotating enough. Raise seat, more castor,or my positive camber?

  • #37386

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Jim

    I know this question is directed to TJ, and I do respect that

    But I couldn’t help but to ask a little more, just to be clear, as I am very curious about it now.

    Are we talking coning ( inside shoulder tire wear) In all 4 tires? or just 1 or 2, or fronts, or rear?

    Please specify. With all seriousness I really interested on this topic.

  • #37391

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Jim,

    If you could take a picture that would help greatly. Pics of the front tires would be good too.

    Tires will always wear more on the inside shoulder. If your rears are wearing excessively on the inside and have some feathering, it’s usually from an oversteer condition. I see it a lot on karts that are too soft in the rear. It seems like the kart tends to squat in the corners, lose traction, and slide on the inside edge of the tire.

    But you say you think it needs to rotate more?

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #37406

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    TJ, I think if the rear cones it’s because the axle is too soft, seat too low, rear too wide, or too soft in the rear preventing the kart from rotating over enough to the outside of the rear tires, correct? thanks

    Fast Freddy, we might have to charge you an entrance fee to this topic! tee hee

  • #37431

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Or you could be over-lifting the inside rear on entry because it’s so soft, causing the rear to set back down again right away.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #37501

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Tee Jayer, as your first choice for more turn in, do you widen the front end, give it  more caster, or give it more ackerman please? thanks

  • #37504

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Widen the front 5mm each side, then caster, then Ackermann as a last resort.

    There’s other things I would do in-between some of those steps. Front bar changes and small track-width changes are my go-to changes for front grip adjustments usually. Increasing caster and widening the front essentially do the same thing, but track width is easier and faster to do and you can make smaller increment adjustments.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
    www.facebook.com/oktanevisual
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  • #37535

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Jim

    I agree with TJ

    Our home track is extremely hard on tires, and you can see that type of tire wear a lot, unfortunately most guys like to go with the softer axle, so yeah it will develop inside shoulder tire wear.

    You can avoid tire wear on the front by creating more positive camber, but it will sacrifice some of the handling.

    And as for the rear goes, there is really no way around it, unless you install a harder axle, it will in fact reduce the inside tire wear, but will of course create a change in your tuning.

    Some times is more important to win a race if it costs you a set of tires, rather than conserving the tires and finishing towards the back.

    We can only do a 3 heat race per set of new tires, and after that they’re pretty much good for a CAN race, or hot laps, or practice (once we flip them over, they’re good to go) My 2 cents. ;)

     

    And yes, I know! You’re right Jim, I should start paying a royalty fee for over posting here

    But my name looks so pretty on every topic, and every section of this forum

    Looks like a Christmas tree. :) So pretty!

  • #37647

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Tee,

    with your connections can you ask around what the x30’s are putting out for hp on the dynos? My  dyno says 27.3 hp for my x30 and it runs about equal to others with the same engine. I know this is  the wrong forum for this topic, but with yer star power maybe I wont get chastised for it !   thanks    and chi wa wa

  • #37662

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Jim,

    Every dyno is different so it would be impossible to compare. All I could say is 27-28 sounds about right for what I’ve seen in the past.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
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  • #37677

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Tee

    I wonder where they get those 30 hp readings from for the x30’s they advertise. I think Fast Freddy might be behind it!

     

  • #38004

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Tee

    Do you go to an axle change as a last resort when everything else fails to work? In other words axle choice isn’t a first choice for handling? thanks

  • #38007

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    Yup, I’m lazy so if I can avoid changing an axle, I try my best to do so.

    Axle change is a pretty big change, one of the biggest you can make, so it makes sense to try and tweak with smaller adjustments first. The thing I’ve learned over the years is that it’s very easy to make too big of an adjustment in desperation only to flip-flop your handling issues the opposite way and make no progress.

    We used to make pretty big changes (or several adjustments at a time, which is a no-no) and then when the handling didn’t feel any better or we didn’t pick up time, we would then make a bigger change for the next session. Pretty soon we were just throwing huge changes at it in desperation and we ended up with some wack setup that was super far off baseline and the kart was never going to work.

    Small adjustments are best.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
    www.facebook.com/oktanevisual
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  • #38071

    Tim Koyen
    Participant

    Hey!  Stop giving away my setup process…lol.

    “…Pretty soon we were just throwing huge changes at it in desperation and we ended up with some wack setup that was super far off baseline and the kart was never going to work.”

    KartLift Kart Stands
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    Don't bother PMing me, it doesn't work. Email is best: tim@kartlift.com.

  • #38163

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Hey, Jim
    Sorry I didn’t reply, I was really busy racing here
    But yeah, I could be behind the top secret of those engines
    Send me a check in the mail, and I’ll tell you all about it. Lol
    Just remember, There is a reason why some motors are hand picked by builders, they go through a handful of cases and they find the one they fall in love with, they massage it, they talk to it ( when no one’s looking ) and they’re all by them selves at the shop, they even give them names, like “KRAZY HORSE, BLUE MOON, MY SWEET HEART, MONY MAKING MACHINE, ETC.

    It is very hard to get accurate readings, exact readings from one engine to another, as mentioned above.

  • #38205

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    We prefer to name engines after Michael Jackson songs. Our two top-shelf Franklin Leopards were “PYT” and “Smooth Criminal”. Better engines got better songs. Not sure if we ever found a “Thriller” or not, that name was being saved for the ultimate engine. But the shop had a “Dirty Diana” as well as a “Janet” too.

    Just sold “Smooth Criminal”, it was sad day.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
    Owner : Oktane Visual - www.oktanevisual.com
    www.facebook.com/oktanevisual
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  • #38207

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    I like the names of the engines. The people I know who have dog engines usually name their’s E BAY…  TEE HEE

  • #38209

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Fast Freddy, ever git that k-100 to put out psi on compression?

  • #38228

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Yes, I did, and manage to win the championship with it. Thank God!
    What a pain in the butt it was, frustrating also.
    We had the option of other fresh engines we’ve got on the shelf, but I really wanted to find out about this one first.

  • #38235

    Jim Silverheels
    Participant

    Fast Freddie, grats on yer championship. The forum family is happy for ya. Now, what shall we tackle next to better ourselves? 

  • #38242

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Well, we could talk about ways how to improve our sport, encourage people that are new or wanting to get started, support them and maintain them so that they keep learning and getting better at it.

    We can also talk about jokes, I love clean killer jokes

    We can talk about Christmas, Jesus, the love of Christ for us

    We can talk about tire coning, etc. Lol ;)

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