Home Forums Tech Talk 4mm difference in left & right camber

This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Walt Gifford 4 years, 11 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #18437

    Dustin McGrew
    Participant

    I just put Snipers on my kart for the first time tonight. I noticed that my camber on one side is 1mm and the other side is 5mm. Both pills are set exactly the same. Does this mean something is bent in the chassis? I didn’t measure to make sure my steering wheel was 100% centered but I’m sure it was really close. I put the snipers on the spacers. Is that ok or should I put them directly on the spindles? I have a Birel RY-30 S3.

  • #18447

    Matt Dixon
    Participant

    Most likely yes.

    Start by shooting the lasers thru a piece of paper (math graph paper is best) placed right at the steering shaft. Line the laser dots up so you only see 1 dot, then you know your steering is straight. If you are way off you need to do some chassis tweeking

    94y

  • #18448

    Matt Dixon
    Participant

    It could be simple like a kingpin.

    Loosen kingpin and spin with laser on, if dot moves up and down then its bent and can cause readings like you got.

    So can a bent spindle

    So it’s not as bad as it seems, most can be fixed.

    94y

  • #18455

    Matt Dixon
    Participant

    Btw put on spindles not spacers, the flat part where the hubs slide on not the tapered part…

    94y

  • #18481

    Nik Goodfellow
    Participant

    Loosen the king pin bolt and tighten them up again without changing anything else.

    More times than not this puts them back to equal.

     

  • #18491

    Dustin McGrew
    Participant

    Thanks everyone. I’ll try these suggestions out :)

  • #18501

    Dustin McGrew
    Participant

    Alright.. so I loosened up the kingpin and turned it a few times, tightened it back up and it didn’t seem to make much of a difference. I checked that my camber/caster pills were set the same on both sides. One thing I noticed that I thought was interesting was that the spindles seemed to be sitting at different heights on the kingpin. The right side had a gap below the spindle but the left side had a gap above it. I thought that was kind of odd and thought that might be what is effecting my camber measurement. What would cause this to happen? See pics below..

    The right side, notice gap below spindle..

     

    The left side, notice gap above the spindle, and no gap on the bottom..

    Here’s what I see on the snipers..

  • #18505

    Brian Degulis
    Participant

    There are spacers on the top and bottom of both spindles to adjust the ride height and they should be the same on each side. Even them up and check it again. If it’s still off it’s bent but that’s no big deal. A kart shop with a chassis table can straighten it in a few minutes or Set it up on a flat level surface and prop up the rear axle level then measure the frame height at the spindles. If it’s off then then raise the front and support it in the center. Have someone sit on the rear wheel oposite the high side in the front then stand on the high side and bounce a little. Re check untill it’s slightly below level. If done right it will settle straight. Sounds rough but it works.

     

     

    Brian

  • #18514

    Dustin McGrew
    Participant

    Ok so I took the spindles off, unfortunately everything just fell off the kart once I did that so I couldn’t get a good look as to how the spacers were set. I put everything back together with the spacer on top of the spindle on both sides and it cut the difference in camber in half.. so that’s good. Still not even though. Last night I had a 6mm split, this morning once I put everything back together it was a 3mm split.

    BTW.. does anyone have some tips to make this process a little less painful? I’ve never done this before but it seemed like a pain in the ass to put everything back together as far as getting the holes on the spacer and spindle to line up and it was tough to push the spindle back in. I had to tap the spindle with a hammer then tap the spacers with a hammer and screw driver to get them in to place.

  • #18549

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Did you try to see if the stub axle is bent? Did you mount both gauges on something to see if the gauge is off? When you tighten the king pins the tires should be on the floor with your foot on the belly pan or your alignment will go out first time you clip a curb.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

  • #18558

    Dustin McGrew
    Participant

    Chad, thanks for the tips. I do not have the front bar in. I loosened up the rear and front bumpers to see if that would do anything and it did not.

    Walt, I slid the snipers back and forth on the spindle shaft and the dots did not move at all, so it seems like the spindles are straight.

  • #18675

    Dustin McGrew
    Participant

    Walt, thanks for your help. First thing I did tonight was take some quick measurements with the kart on the stand. Each measurement showed the right side being slightly longer than the left.. only by about an 1/8 inch on each measurement. I’m guessing this definitely means something is bent in the frame. Here’s photos of one way that I measured. I measured from the cassette bracket to the pill set screws.

  • #18811

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    You’re not measuring anything going from there.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

  • #18532

    Matt Dixon
    Participant

    Practice, practice , practice.

    One other thing, if the front bar is in loosen it.

    Things twist by loosen and then retightening the bar it allows the chassis reset itself, so to speak.

    94y

  • #18545

    Chad Landers
    Participant

    Insert a screw driver up from the bottom through the washers, spindle bearing, and hanger.  Go from the opposite way your king pin bolt goes.  Either up or down.  Most bolts go downward like yours so insert the screw driver from the bottom. As you insert the kingpin bolt rotate the screw driver in a circular motion.  That way the washers will center on the screw driver and bolt as you push it down through.

    Now, as for your spindle heights.  Yes that is going to effect the camber.  Whoever had the kart before might have had one spindle lower or higher to get the correct corner weight to equal out the front end. If the camber adjusters are the same both sides and the spindle heights in the hangers are different the camber is going to be different.

    If you have the spindle spacer heights the same and the camber adjusters the same the laser aligners should be the same.  If not something is slightly tweeked. Could be a lot of things. Frame, kingpin bolt, spindle.

    It is just going to take time and trial and error to get the lasers to equal out.  You may have to adjust one side differently than the other to get the same measurements.

    Looking at your pictures you need to adjust the left side.  Take the positive camber out of that side.  That should drop the laser down on that side and raise the other side, right side up.  Try and get both sides to slightly negative camber.  Then things will start to get easier to adjust.

    Good Luck.

  • #18597

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Nothing is easy.

    Put a 3′ ruler across the bottom of the frame and measure up to the rear axle. make sure it’s the same height on both sides.

    Take your ruler and put it across your king pin bolts or the spindle brackets then get behind the kart with your eye on the center line and sight the rear axle with the ruler and see if they are parallel. If not your frames bent. You might have to pull the enigne and/or seat to do this.

    Next set your toe. Don’t try to measure the pitman arm just eyeball it to the 6 Oclock position and lock it down somehow. adjust your tie rods for zero toe.

    measure the wheel base left and right, if it’s within 1/8″ your ok.

    Make your spindle spacers the same top and bottom and set all the pills to neutral. Tighten the kin pin bolts with some weight on the front end. Set camber for 1 degree negative in a direction that will increase caster. If the left right settings are very different something is worn, bent or made wrong.

    Some manufactures make spindles with different camber settings welded in or maybe the powder coating is worn in one of the camber pill holes maybe one side has a straight pill.

    Find a set of tires the have the same roll out left to right at about the same air pressure. Now you’re ready for scales.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.