Home Forums Tech Talk 2 sets of holes for tie rod on steering shaft

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    • #27937
      Gary Smith
      Participant

      My steering shaft has 2 sets of mounting holes for the tie rods, currently tie rods are mounted in the outboard position, steering feels heavy. What would happen if I mounted the tie rods in the inner position?

      Gary

      #55 Honda CR80

    • #27948
      Steen Carstensen
      Participant

      Moving the tie rods to the inside holes will reduce the amount of Ackerman.

    • #27950
      Walt Gifford
      Participant

      The inner holes are for a wide open track with no tight turns. If steering feels heavy try more caster.

      Gif

      FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
      Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
      Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
      41 years karting experience

    • #27957
      Gary Lawson
      Participant

      If steering is heavy you wpuld decreae caster.

      The easiest way to make the steering easier is to move the tie rod connection point on the shaft closer to the tube of the shaft. You will have to turn the wheel slighly more to get the same input at the tire but it will be much easier to turn. If their is a spot on the spindle further out, it will reduce ackerman slightly and also make it slightly easier to steer. The most impactful change while also not altering handling would be the tie rod connection point on the shaft.

    • #28037
      Gary Smith
      Participant

      I’d like to thank everyone for their comments. I have only one tie rod location on the spindles.  I have decided to change the tie rod connection on the steering shaft to the inner holes. I checked to the toe prior to changing and after, did not change. If the change does not have the desired effects or adversely effects the handling of the kart, I know I can change it back without effecting the toe.

      Gary

      #55 Honda CR80

    • #28046
      Gary Lawson
      Participant

      Id be interested to see s pic of what you describe as inner vs outer holes. Sounds like as you change it the toe would have to change.

    • #28099
      Gary Smith
      Participant

      What I have is a 2008 Birel M32, the steering shaft has 2 sets of 8mm holes 6mm apart, leaving a peanut shaped hole, the direction of the holes when viewed on the kart with the steering centered, would be either up or down. The tie rods were mounted in the lower holes (outer) and I moved them to the upper holes (inner). Being the tie rods are long (308mm center to center) and the amount moved so small (6mm), the amount of toe change is only .12mm (.005 inch) total. I did the math and the tape measure shows no change.

      Gary

      #55 Honda CR80

    • #28135
      Walt Gifford
      Participant

      When my steering feels heavy it means the back end is stuck. More caster frees up the rear. Yes, less caster will make it steer easier but you also want it to turn. Going to the top holes will give you more leverage and you’ll have to crank the wheel more for the same jacking effect.

      FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
      Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
      Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
      41 years karting experience

    • #28146
      Gary Smith
      Participant

      I have caster pills on top only,  they are set in the positive position. Unless I want to buy more caster pills, I can’t add any more caster. I have 2 Birel karts, the other Birel has the tie rods mounted the inner position, the steering feels lighter and yes I have to crank the wheel a bit more, but it doesn’t wear me out like this one does. Like I said, if this doesn’t give me the desired effects, it is a simple nut and bolt job to put it back like it was with no money spent. I’ll see what happens the next time I go out.

      Gary

      #55 Honda CR80

    • #29342
      brian downing
      Participant

      Contrary to a few of the opinions posted, according to both my Margay and my CRG chassis set up sheets state the moving the tie rods inward on the spindles will **increase** the ackerman effect.

    • #29351
      Steen Carstensen
      Participant

      Brian, we are not talking about the  spindles, if you read the post, you would see, that the questions were concerning the holes on the steering shaft spades. You are however right in that moving the tie rods to the inner holes on the spindle arms will increase ackerman, whereas the opposite is true with regards to the steering shaft spades.

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