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Paul Kish

edit up front again:  I wrote this late after coming in from the track.  I’ll probably not read through it to edit or check it out until Saturday AM.   Not being a moderator on here I probably won’t be able to edit it after a set amount of time goes by.  So tomorrow if I have to edit it I’ll probably have to re-post it in an edited form.  I think and write pretty much ok anymore so it might just be ok anyway.  But for tonight, it is what it is.


Rob, I understood what you wrote.

“If you had a track where each and every corner was connected to the next by a long straight, then and only then could you look at each corner “in a vacuum”.”

Most every track I’ve seen this year is exactly as you described in what I quoted. … :)

We almost 100% now run LTO(left turn only) and a straight does indeed follow every turn, if you include both turns at each end as one.

But I do understand what you wrote.  We started out sprint racing boxstock briggs flathead and to this day have a track record in Senior Medium.  (the track is no longer in use)

Let me try to un complicated it.  To be fast in at your two turn left then right portion of the track, I think your saying there is a speed you can take the first turn which is slower then what is possible, which puts you on an exit line to take the second turn more efficiently then if you took the first turn with a “HIGHER” entry speed AND a “HIGHER” speed through the turn.

I deliberately related a higher turn speed to a “HIGHER” entry speed because you associated braking with over all turn speed.  I think the result of the higher turn speed in the first turn is it mandates the exit line from the first turn to the second, will cause you to be too slow through the second turn.  now that was truly complicated. … :)

Let me put some constraints on limit of grip.  Limit of grip is not just associated with speed.  It’s also associated with g’s or how tight you need to take the turn to put yourself on the line through the turn you want to be on.  You can enter a turn sharply at a relatively slow speed and be beyond the limit of grip.  Or you might enter a turn not so sharply at a relatively fast speed and not be beyond the limit of grip.  So, I guess we must put the limit of grip or be at the limit of grip, when entering a turn with the ability to put yourself on the line that you want.  In your scenario I will assume we are entering the turn at a speed which puts you >at the limit of grip< and you will be able to negotiate the turn at a 4cycle speed, which will put you on a line at exit that will allow for maximum speed through the second turn.  Right now you have the best of all known worlds.  You were fast to the first turn, you used your brakes enough so that you could take the first turn at the speed a 4cycle would flat out.

?   did I get the last sentence right ?

Ok it’s all good through the first turn.  Or is it good enough?

What I’m proposing is you can do exactly what you need to do as in the last sentence and still get through the constant arc turn faster.  What the point to my whole input in this thread is, is that your grip is limited on entry by your ability to turn. … I think I have that correct.

Your ability to turn is specifically limited by the capability of your outside front tire.  It nets out to you can’t enter the turn any faster then your “outside front tire will allow you to do”.

Do I have that correct?   If I don’t then there is no need for me to go on because everything from this point on will be false.

so I’ll stop here, at least for now.




before I leave, if your reading on here Mike… how’d I do reading your mind? … :)



Brake, Insert 'arc', Turn, Accelerate