WKA Manufacturer’s Cup

Nick Rango · Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 172

bottom line is that if teams like mrp and arrow are bringing in drivers for one event to help secure championships, then thats awesome. Seems like it would make for more exciting scenarios, as long as these drivers don't interfere with individual championship battles.

Tim Koyen · Advertiser Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Posts: 1557

Kelly Michimi · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: wka man cup

Thanks, Tim, for trying to get the discussion back to the original topic about the chassis points cup. But if people think it's a problem, they haven't offered solutions or commented on the suggestions made about whether changing the points system would help.

also, I guess no one knows the answers to my questions about how the points work on chassis w/different names made by the same mfr. or my question of why there is no engine builders cup.

I think no one has a problem with drivers being there for the purpose of winning points for the chassis cup AS LONG AS they drive fair and clean so that they don't potentially mess up one of the drivers who is there battling for individual points. I can give you one example - my son was battling with Eric Jones (Arrow) for the win on Sat. for Yamaha SC Lite and I can tell you that Eric raced w/him absolutely 100% clean and fair, just as he always does. He's a very skilled and respectful driver and we always enjoy racing with him - total class act on and off the track.

But it sounds like from these posts there were problems in other races and the sportsman classes? I wasn't watching so I don't know. But again, no one is offering potential solutions if they think it is a problem.

Now, while we are on the subject of race starts, why is it that they have started punishing both drivers and inverting the whole row this year. In the past, there were times when they would only punish/invert the offending driver. It's not fair to the one driver who was doing it correctly. Most of the time, the offender will be the outside pole b/c pole is supposed to set the pace. If the outside pole doesn't go w/the polesitter's pace, then he/she will usually be the offender. On some occasions the pole will be accelerating too soon and then I guess the pole would be the offender. Either way, just punish/invert the offending driver, not both. That's really unfair.
(I know sometimes they get pushed from behind and it's not their fault, but that is a matter all together different and I guess the officials just have to watch for that.)

jim rogero · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: Re: wka man cup

jim rogero · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:28 am Post subject:

jeff grose · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:55 am Post subject:

Damn Jim, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel,

see you Sat. nite at the banquet

jeff
_________________
jlgracing
#31 Gillard/PDBAmerica
IAME Leopards by P1 Engines
Tag Sr./FKCS/WKA
Driver: Jesse Grose
Remember: "No matter where you go,there you are"

Joe Woronka · Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 525

Andy Seesemann · Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject:

Daytona probably has more "guest drivers" than any other Man Cup race, yet this never comes up in late December.

Why?

People haven't had a chance to do math, yet.....

A
_________________
Andy Seesemann
FULL THROTTLE KARTING
Orange County, CA.
www.fullthrottlekarting.com
Rotax Challenge of the Americas
www.rotaxchallenge.com
WKA District 10 Trustee
www.worldkarting.com
Really Good Guy.

Tim Koyen · Advertiser Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Posts: 1557

Man Cup is one of the most successful series in the country, so screwing with it's formula is not a good idea.

This whole discussion boils down to few incidents that are not worthy of shaking up this great series over. I'm not saying that someone didn't get "screwed", only that there isn't a series in the country where someone doesn't end up on the short of a deal once in awhile. It just so happens this was a higher profile event than some and people are talking about it a little more.

If we're going to continue with this discussion on what went wrong, then I think we need specific facts about what actually happened. I was at the event and didn't witness anything, but perhaps others did. Before we allow people who weren't there or don't participate in Man Cup to tell us how to solve the problems, its important that everyone know what the facts about the problem are.
_________________
High Quality American Made kart stands. Available direct to you or through one of our many dealers.
www.kartlift.com
Toll Free: 877-777-8020 or 608-235-4761 anytime
www.facebook.com/kartlift

Jim Sharkey · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject:

Tom Koyen wrote:
"If we're going to continue with this discussion on what went wrong, then I think we need specific facts about what actually happened. I was at the event and didn't witness anything, but perhaps others did. Before we allow people who weren't there or don't participate in Man Cup to tell us how to solve the problems, its important that everyone know what the facts about the problem are."

Tim,
When have you ever seen most of the usual suspects on here, that don't participate in an event or situation, worry about facts or truth. I think their motto is:

"Why let the fact/truth get in the way of:
1. Stirring up ****
2. Pushing my/our agenda
3. Adding to my/our overvalued sense of importance

Jim Sharkey

Tim Pappas · Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 792 Location: Burkina Faso,

Tim Blaney · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1127

Tim Pappas · Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 792 Location: Burkina Faso,

Lance Zabrowski · Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:06 am Post subject:

Every on track "incident" (I refrain from calling it an "accident", since many are the result of intentional, or "acceptable" contact) is a two sided arguement.
First, what is needed is an official guideline for "acceptable" driving behavior by the drivers, which currently seems to be very fluid depending on the team, driver, series, track or how much coffee the person has had that day.

Secondly, it is the balanced and fair enforcement of the guidelines or "rules" of contact, and consistent enforcement of the known
consequences. If either is open to "negotiation" then they are pointless. Make a decision and stick by it, but to not call anything is even more frustrating for everyone.

The third, and this is the biggie, is the monitoring or "evidence" of said infraction. Many times it comes down to "No one saw it" (except the driver or his crew) or it is chalked up to a "racing accident" which certainly does happen, but I think is more the exception than the rule.

In almost every event, more on track officials, on the track watching the race, especially at the start and the first few corners, would be very helpful. Add to that an experienced flagman that controls the speed/line up of the start. Next would be the addition of video cameras (either on kart, or on track) that would be open to review, and revision, especially at the higher profile events. I know most will say "not possible" or "too expensive" but these are the same people who buy 8-10 sets of tires for a weekend, and spend thousands to get to said events. Requiring Go-Pro's on each kart would not be terribly expensive, and video does not lie. No doubt it would make each race more involved, but it would certainly reduce the amount of "judgement calls" involved, and provide some degree of parity. If you are willing to travel hundreds, if not thousands of miles, not to mention all the other expenses (kart spares, damage to self and equipment, loss of points) don't tell me a $300 dollar camera is going to break your budget.
If you want to accept contact, accidents and "lost weekends" thats fine, but don't tell me it can't be done either. Make the rules, enforce them, and when all else fails, use the video.
Or you can just accept "thats racing" pack up the pieces of your kart, and go on your merry way.