Universal Rules: What would it take?

[Darren Swisher]

If a meeting of all the sanctioning body presidents where held, who would be invited?

What classes need to be eliminated or added?
What rules are need for remaining classes?

Do we have the answers to these questions?

Darren

[deborah d-harpur]

Darren, such a meeting was held last year in Dallas.

the moderator was Art. V.

reps from IKF, WKA and KART came.

back issues of Karter News, Go Racing and National Kart News have info on it.

[Darren Swisher]

Deb, What came of this meeting? Is the article available online?

Darren

[Larry Dobbs]

Here's my idea to unite the karting universe! Mission statement: Safe, affordable, competitive, kart racing for everyone. Goals: 1. Pretech for safety only. 2. Division of classes for safety is by type of engine and chassis, then by lap time. The number of classes are determined by the number of entries. That's it. Here's an example: Roadrace - laydowns - 25 entries. Therefore they all race together because roadrace courses can safely handle the total. Example two: Roadrace - 125 shifters 100 entries. Therefore two races. Race A: Lap time 2:05:00 or less. Race B: lap time more than 2:05:00. Etc.
What do you think?

[Benn Herr]

Actually, we need more classes. What ever will get somebody to race, as many as you want. We need any class two people can agree on.

But,….

We do need to stop thinking that every class deserves to be equally important. We need to decide what kind of class each one is.

Is it a Local Club class? Where the people in it have all ended up running the same thing, or spend a certain amount of money, or are all over a certain age. Any reason will do, it’s all good!

Is it a Regional class? Do people from a couple of clubs like to run a certain way. Do the tracks in your region fit certain kart configurations better than others? Is a distributor for a certain kind karting product making it attractive and pushing a class? Do it!

Are you a young gun with an eye towards becoming a professional driver? Are you a type "A" personality with a driving ambition to succeed? Running a shop and have the need for a place to show your talents/wares on a national scale? Then you should be running a National class.

I think this is the reason for the acceptance/success of karting in Europe. They have as many classes as we do – at the local and regional level (don’t forget that each country has their own championships also) but the path when you get close to the top is pretty clear.

We have similar levels of competition now but we also have the same number of classes at ever level. What we should have is a pyramid of classes. The higher up you go on the competition ladder, the fewer classes there are, and the harder it is to do well. It will take more of your time and it will take more of your resources. If it were easy, everybody would do it! Maybe we try so hard to get everybody to do karting, we make it too easy to do and it ends up being nothing.

Now before you say we need to run classes just like Europe, I don’t think any of their classes would fly here. Different kinds of tracks, different formats, and a big desire to do it "Our Way". We have some obvious classes to use here that will serve the same function.

Our national organizations need to give local clubs the go ahead to cater to their customers – their local club members. Let them do what they need to do to get more racers. Let the regions get together and decide what works for them. If they’re successful, then karting will be successful. The national organization should do what it’s good at, supplying the sanctioning and insurance needs of the clubs, and the framework for, and operation of a National championship.

What we as racers need to do is understand where we fit in the system.

It’s late, I gotta go to bed,
Benn Herr
Kart Design
Chandler, Az.

[bird]

quote

Quote:

I think this is the reason for the acceptance/success of karting in Europe. They have as many classes as we do – at the local and regional level (don’t forget that each country has their own championships also) but the path when you get close to the top is pretty clear.

Maybe not as many . Actually I think we probably have as many but they are all different (we don't have the thing of people racing multiple classes unless they have the dosh for several sets of equipment) As far as I'm concerned governing bodies should approve any class they think is reasonably safe, then clubs should be responsible enough to run the classes they can get a reasonable entry for or amalgamate sensibly.

[Rick Crow]

I agree with Benn Herr's scenario. but the reality is that the prymid already exists. Regardless of what organization or series you race or belong to there is a upper echleon of competition. It just isn't carved in stone. If you race you know what the next level is because that is where you are looking to go next.
This constant comparison of how europe does things in comparison to how things are done in the USA is ludricous. The USA is geographically larger with different resources and a different lifestyle. The three larger sanctioning bodies (IKF,WKA,SKUSA) serve distinct groups of racers and in some cases different geographical regions. I think overall they each do a pretty good job.

Rick

[bird]

no point reinventing the wheel though, we can all learn from each other. From what I can see, people constantly asking what happens in Europe and me answering them is a way of generating ideas not blind adherence to doing the same things 10 years later.

I get on this board because I can learn to see things differently, I'd never just dismiss stuff because you guys are further away from each other or prefer karts with gears or whatever

[Bob Chiras]

A great start would be to start at the top and get the factions to accept that at the national level there will be only some number like six classes run. At the regional level there can be more classes but still with a limit and then at the local level let them have as many as it takes to keep the natives happy.

At year end or with some frequency the national classes can meet and compete, thereby deciding the real national champion.

The technical rules will sort themselves out as when the racers get together no one is going to accept that they have to be less competitive that the other so after a few meetings the rules will become the same.

Then we begin to ask ourselves why we have so many political bodies who can not carry out our wishes.

[Deborah Davidson-Harpur]

Darren, I am sure the press release is somewhere in TKWS archives... they had it as a main story at the time. It was held the day prior to our meeting in Shreveport, LA in Dallas. I'm at work, so can't tell you when exactly that was, except that it was last year.

[Gary Robinson]

Darren,

You have brought up the most important topic in the future of karting, (and many other racing organisations). The problem arises from all the known sources, egos, profit, lack of adaptability, I want to win with 100 poeple in the class, I want to win with 2 poeple in the class, I want to race a Mac, I want this I want that, we did it that way in 1978, if we adopt new classes my business dies, I just signed an import agreement, I just bought new bodywork, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Very few poeple can get beyond today and look into the future of karting. If we do not plan for the future, we will be in serious trouble.

At least Euro has F1 guiding karting. I am sure it has it problems, but at least it is organised.


GFR

[Darren Swisher]

Gary, Just think if only two things were to happen for karting.

1. Universal rules
2. Class minimization on the regional and national levels, locals clubs will always do what they want.

I think the more heat from the top levels working its way down to the local levels would help matters out.

I wish we could get all the president in one place at one time and hash it out. Charlie Tacket and Tom Argy as moderators.

Darren

[Pete Muller]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Darren Swisher:
What would it take to get all the sanctioning bodies to agree to universal rules throughout the country?

---

A dictator.

[Benn Herr@Work]

Saro,
Use Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil stain remover!

Benn Herr
Kart Design
Chandler, Az.

P.S. Streets on the 26th?

[Saro Marcarian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Benn Herr:
Actually, we need more classes.
But,….

We do need to stop thinking that every class deserves to be equally important. We need to decide what kind of class each one is.

---

Maybe I need to move to Phoenix and sweep Ben's shop floor.

I'm in agreement with Ben - except for that big 4 stroke thing he runs! I think if some guy and his neighbor and his neighbor's son-in-law want to run a class based on a direct drive sawed off Chevy 350, then fine.

What I have an issue with is a National Champion in a class called (Senior, Junior, Sumo, WWF, etc) Sportsman. SPORTSMAN. Guy/Gal out to have fun on weekend.

Look at it this way: Imagine a silly 19 year old Armenian boy autocrossing a Black '85 CRX Si in C Street Prepared (totally hypothetical). Silly 19 year old boy wants to go and race for real. Does he get a CART license and lobby to have 1.5 litre, 3 valve, front drive, 1890 lb cars on DOT tires allowed in a CART race?

The fact that *K* wants to run national as well as local events doesn't mean that ALL those same classes need to be given room.

Wanna be a national champ? Get OUT of SPORTSman and get into a class not (falsely) intent on cutting cost. Formula A / Super A(if we had it in the US), Formula Psycho (125 GB), Formula Drone (clutch), etc. I wonder what Stephen will say about a Rotax class...

No FA Light / Heavy. No FP Local / National / International / International Appearing / Truely International. All out, cut throat, $pon$or driven with acceptably open rules. BIG fields. 3-5 classes TOTAL. TV-able and spectator friendly main event(s) - should someone at Speedvision decide that Kart Racing is more exciting than a yachting show highlighting Mother Frankenfeller's Wood Wheel Wax.

Would I be disappointed? Only as long as it took for me to realize that I'd never have any business competing in that arena anyway. Then I'd go back to watching Lawnmower Racing on Speedvision trying to bury my minimally depressed state under a bag of potato chips while contemplating how to lose enough weight to compete in Formula Lame in the Reseda Kart Club (membership: 1).

-Saro

PS - Anyone know how to get a Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil stain out from my driving suit?

PPS - What was this thread about?