How Much Does a Shifter Weigh (of 385 lbs.) ?

Vic Madrid · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:33 am Post subject:

I knew if I waited long enough Brian would provide the answer and I wouldn't have to type so much. Thanks Brian ! Wink

_________________
- Vic
- SCCA/WDCR F125 #54
- 2006 Tony//Kart Krypton 125

Chris M Johnson · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 568

Brian/Vic,

So the downside to the shifter seems to be that there isnt alot of local interest in karting circles -- which means to run with good competition, we're talking about autocross.

I suppose the other option is to get a TAG kart, but thats not the right kart for Autocross. I suppose a shifter chassis can be configured for TAG. (?)

When you do the math its really surprising that so few people are running in F125. The whole 0-100-0 in SIX seconds and 3Gs cornering is pretty amazing and puts to shame almost any car, even those caterhams.

The icing on the cake is that for one year's depreciation costs for a new car, you can pretty much pay for a new shifter.

And it gets even better. The transportation costs for a kart are much less. I can put one on th back of my HF trailer and tow it to events with my miata and get 27-28mpg. I dont need a big truck or a big trailer. Even those inexpensive SP cars need a full sized trailer and full sized tow vehicle.

Plus, the consumables are dirt cheap. I think.

The only downside that I can see is the potential loss of life and limb in roadracing.

So talk some sense into me. How is campainging a kart not better than campainging ANY car?

Brian Garfield · Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject:

Talk some sense into you? Shocked

You're making plenty of sense.

Even though I lack true experience, let me give you some downsides, vs. running a STOCK car:
1) Rain sucks because of being in it the whole time, plus cleanup is more time consuming
2) Maintenance is much more critical. The Stock car pretty much runs all the time, almost never has an issue. The kart can still have tuning issues.
3) You'll definitely get more sore after driving, but I imagine that gets better after awhile.

Anyone else care to add something?

Anyway, all bets are off once you go to some SP, P, and Mod cars. Tinkering and keeping running are still issues there.

There are people with shifters in the area, but as I understand it, most travel to those "better" tracks I mentioned, or go road racing at Summit, VIR, etc.
You could get a TAG and have fun, but you wouldn't be able to keep up with the shifters in F125 if you chose to autocross. I have no desire to take the risk of even Sprint events (I'm a freelancer and breadwinner, I CANNOT take a chance of getting that injured)

The reason, IMO, you don't see everyone in shifters is that many people use an everyday driver for Solo. A shifter is not really cheap enough to just buy as a toy unless you have a serious interest in it.

It seems some people jump in, then right back out of it again. I'm hoping I won't be one of those people. This is one of the only ways for me to get into something REALLY fast on a regular basis (although Michael D., in a Caterham, just offered me a co-drive...) so I won't be missing the "slow" Stock class. Plus, karts are going to be in the family for quite awhile.

This is all coming from someone who hasn't owned one yet, just spent a good bit of time around them, so feel free to correct me.

Brian

William Sandoval · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:34 am Post subject:

I would say that the main downside to autocrossing a shifter really has to be that you'll get beat up pretty badly as it is a lot more physical than a car. This will especially be the case on bumpy parking lot surfaces. Make sure that you get a good seat (like a Ribtect), that you are snug in that seat, and that you wear a good rib protector. The day after first racing a shifter, you'll feel like you got hit by a truck. It does get a lot better with time. Now I just feel mildly sore the next day after a race. It is possible that these things won't affect you so much since you aren't getting as much track time as you would on a sprint track but I'm sure the bumps will be hard on your ribs.
As for the 0-100 in 6 seconds and 3g's of lateral acceleration: These figures are probably a little exagerrated. Certainly, it would take a beast of a car to out drag a shifter to 100mph and it would take a car with serious downforce to out corner a kart. FYI my data acq tells me that I'm pulling over 3g's in cornering as do most karting units but I've read that we are getting more like 2.5 (calibration).
If I were to auto cross anything, it would be a shifter as it is probably somewhere in the B or C mod range in terms of speed and the maintenance (not to mention cost) is nothing compared to what I've read about the B and C mods.
It probably won't hurt to get out on a sprint track for practice days just to get the stamina up.

Good luck

Vic Madrid · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:00 am Post subject:

Chris-

for me, the soreness wasn't a factor of the surface, but rather from tensing up. Then the epiphany hits after about 4-5 events that relaxing and letting the body weight lean out dramatically helps handling, and that you don't need to "hang on" to the wheel with all your might. I haven't been sore since last year. This despite getting airborne a few times.

Rain sucks. period. Unless you have some good goretex ski gear (fortunately I have)

It's really really cheap compared to a car (as you said). And as far as the maintenance/reliability thing, other than a bad caliper seal that had me bleeding the brakes before every other event I pretty much just parked it after each event and didn't touch it. (the purists cringe, I know!) And as far as alignment and engine work, you do it yourself. (ie: cheaper than a $75+/hr mechanic) Consumables: My 2 season old tires still have another season in them, but w/ the new competition next year I'll have to drop the $160 for a new set (buy directly from MG, cheaper than any other source) I need to replace a tie rod ($10). the only other consumable is the engine rebuild, about $100-150 tops. Now, there are those that send their motors out for some voodoo magic that costs a bunch more, but I wouldn't worry about that until you have a couple seasons under your belt.

re: W2W racing, I'm with BG, a bit risky if you have a family. Watch a couple "crash" videos, and then hear about some other very unfortunate on-track incidents involving wildlife and that option seems less enticing. But that's not to say that I'm not looking forward to some friendly lapping at BeaveRun or elsewhere.

Good luck in your search. I found my kart in the classifieds on this forum 2 years ago. Now is the best time to buy as well! Good selection, and time to work on it before next season. One tip- if you go to pick up a kart and expect freezing temps, drain the coolant before you drive it home!

Vic
_________________
- Vic
- SCCA/WDCR F125 #54
- 2006 Tony//Kart Krypton 125

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject:

Chris M Johnson · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 568

Vic,
If its raining really bad I can just autoX my tow vehicle. Wink

Glad to hear the physical pain is not a factor. Also, sounds like the maintenance is right around what I anticipated. Now i need to decide if a used chassis is a good idea. Should I get a "limo"?

-Chris

Bob Monday · Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 91

Most event-to-event maintenance is more like "clean-up". Taking the axle out, removing the bearings, cleaning everything in a Harbor Freight parts cleaner tank ($70). Front bearings don't take as much abuse from parking lot grit as the rears do, so get by with less maintenance. With rain, EVERYTHING has to come apart and get cleaned. Lots of WD40 will keep things from rusting, though putting it on an exhaust system will make it turn black. Not as attractive, but better than rust. (Marvel Mystery Oil makes a clean pipe turn a nice blue-purple, which looks faster... <G>) Use WD40 on the chassis, bumpers, etc. then wipe down to prevent rust and make a nice shine.

Re: Ribtect seat, make sure that you take the measurements and get the seat that fits you properly! A Ribtect rib vest provides complimentary protection. Several of us also use elbow pads since the right elbow is about at the motor.

As Alan would attest, I used to get worn out by a couple consecutive autocross practice laps. Later, it took 6 laps at a sprint track. Now, it takes about 20 HARD laps at Norway in 95-degree heat to do it. So get some seat time and improve your cardio function!

Remember, you can get 40+ hp out of less than 7.5 cubic inches. Do the math on a 350 cu in motor, then talk to me about "maintenance".

Bob Monday
<Rain sucks>

Andrew. james · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:36 am Post subject:

I like walmart 99 cent brake cleaner for cleaning of the dirt and oil followed buy wd40 for rust prevention

Vic Madrid · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Maintenance

Brian Garfield · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:02 am Post subject:

Yes, but I drove your kart sans elbow pad and never had a problem...what in the hell are YOU doing wrong Razz

Bob Monday · Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 91

I'd advise against using the brake cleaner on any painted surface. (Definitely not on decals.) It will remove any clear coat and can damage the paint itself.

Strong stuff!

I use mineral spirits, my parts cleaner brush and a large oil change (plastic) pan to catch run-off as I clean the bearing hangers and rear chassis of grunge. I generally use diluted Simple Green and paper towels to clean the front half. Simple Green will also damage some decals (if they're not laminated/clear-coated).

Bob

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 473

[quote="Vic Madrid"]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that wears an elbow pad (actually the hard plastic type)! I've bent 3 spark plug tips this season by hitting it w/ my elbow.

Vic,

First time I F125'd I bashed the right elbow on the motor really hard, twice! After that, I went to the hard shell pad (roller hockey). I still wear it, but really don't have to. What I learned is to keep my elbows IN! Driving from a more relaxed position involves keeping the arms mostly in front of you, not out to the sides.

Alan

Vic Madrid

Brian Garfield