SuperKarts in A-Mod?

Brian Garfield · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:55 am Post subject:

Larry, for the Junior Karts, since the SCCA self insures, the minors cannot be in a kart that's faster than FJ4 overall. However, there's nothing in the rulebook about disallowing other classes for adults.

Now, if you ask for a clarification, you may get one. But, for the purpose of "250 Heavy" we'd probably be ok because we'd be shooting for the same power/weight ratio as F125 to help the guys that are 200+lbs. (notice how I'm not saying ADD weight to the F125 class to allow heavy people to be competitive...)

"They" usually encourage making classes to suit your Region's needs when possible. If the 250 class exists for karts and isn't faster than A Mod, it would probably be fine.

Brian

Andrew. james · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:54 am Post subject:

A local class would be up to the chairman and local safety stewart.

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

Brian Garfield · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject:

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

Well I'll be darned, Brian. It looks as though I have just been around too long, and am recalling wording from past year books. The first one I put my hands on, because it was by the computer, is from 2002. In that book, the Appendix G heading was "Karts at Solo II Events" Section III.A stated: "Kart eligibility is limited to racing karts recognized and regulated by a national kart sanctioning organization (WKA, IKF, ISRA, NSKA, etc.) with a maximim of one 125cc engine. 125cc shifter karts are the fastest karts allowed."

Because of the way in which it was worded, the rule did not just apply to the F125 class, it was a general statement about karts at SCCA sanctioned autocrosses. It was that which I was remembering. I don't have the 2004 or 2003 books handy....

As happens when rules are transferred from one section of the book to another, some wording is changed or omitted which can be construed as a change in policy or legality. When F125 was made a National Class, and taken from Appendix G's "Karts at Solo II Events" to section 19.1's "F125", it seems as though the previous intent and supporting wording was lost.

While I don't personally have an issue with a local "250 Heavy" class, the SEB might. Before a wheel turns under 250 2-cycle gearbox power at any SCCA autocross, I'd highly recommend a clarification from the SEB. The time to find out is before, not after, the tire burning begins. Laughing

Thanks for bringing it up, and pointing me to the CURRENT rule book.

Alan

Mark Brown · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:

Brian Garfield · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject:

Good to know Alan, I figured you weren't "wrong" but I wanted to be sure there wasn't something I was missing.
I wouldn't plan on doing something like that without checking on it, but I'm glad to know there used to be something there.
I had remembered something as well, but when I looked it up in the '05 book, I figured it must have just been the passages in there that didn't apply.
Anyhow, we'll give them a heads up. I'll check on an approval for an "F250 Heavy" class as well, just to know for the future.

Mark,

EDIT: YEP! Sure enough, the 2004 book has the section you refer to, but that entire section "III. Kart Eligibility" is not even in the 2005 book. Actually, neither is section "IV. Safety", however, it's covered in the F125 Class section.

Thanks,
Brian

Andrew. james · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject:

I would not be in f125 so those rules do not apply. If it's not listed as banned in the appendix then the arguement can be made that it is allowed to run. Time only would probably be the only class it's allowed in but as far as I can tell it's allowed. Send a letter to KAC and ask is the best bet.

Vernon Head · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:

Before you get too excited about 250 cc. karts, I should tell you that a few years back SKUSA allowed them at Supernationals. I can no longer find any results archives, but I do know that they were slower than the 125s. This is not to say that they wouldn't be faster in the hands of the top drivers but it's food for thought.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject:

Vernon, I assume you mean the 4 stroke, not the 2 stroke. We (or at least I) was referring to a 250 2 stroke, clearly much faster.

However, the 250cc 4 stroke IS legal for F125.

Brian

Vernon Head · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject:

I do mean the 2-stroke. I read about it in Shifter Kart Illustrated. The 250 class were good drivers, just not at the level of the 125 drivers. The class was also fairly small, which is probablyl why they eventually dropped it.

Vernon Head · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:36 pm Post subject:

Don't believe me? I found these two results pages from 1999 Supernationals:

First go to: http://209.35.195.160/supernats99/final_80jr.htm

Then go to: http://209.35.195.160/supernats99/final_250.htm

Even the 80 juniors were faster than the 250s. Actually a second faster in qualifying.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject:

Point taken. Although, we all know the driver can make all of the difference. It's easy though to make the generalization that when a class is that much smaller, the talent pool is as well.

Also, is there even a power/weight difference. If the 250 has to carry too much weight, it won't be any faster.

Brian

Bob Monday · Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 91

Vernon brought the data for the point I was thinking as I read the thread. The 250s have higher top speed when running "long tracks", but additional weight works against them in sprint tracks and lower speed stuff. Their forte is horsepower, and it's hard to really use that "extra" on stuff as tight as an autocross course.

Bob Monday