Costs

[Bonnier Moulton]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Stevens:
I was at the PMT at Pat's last weekend, and I'd have to say that from what I saw, Msquared has one of the more sensible approaches to cost containment. They had a small trailer, small staff, not a lot of frills, no RV, yet Mathis ran consistently mid pack, bettering many of the teams that appeared much better funded. It's not necessarily how much money one spends, but how they spend the money they have.

Dave

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Thanks for the kind words Dave, but as much as I'd like to take credit for a sensible approach, I've got to tell you that Rob does these races on his own dime. We help him as much as we can with parts and such, but in all reality he's a privateer.

Rob spent well over $2k to do the ProMoto race at Canby. That's with no-frills whatsoever. His Dad wrenched for him and he used the minimum number of new tires that you can get by with. This is more than he spent to do both the Stars round 2 and the U.S. Shifter Championship races at Norman a few weeks back. And Norman is much further away which necessitated a few extra days travel. He still plans on doing the World Finals, but I don't think the 2002 ProMoto Tour will be on his schedule.

If you're not 17 years old and trying to make a career in motorsports, it makes more sense to run the "specialty" events such as the USSC, the Portland ChampCar race and next years Laguna Seca race. More fun and less money.

Bonnier
Msquared Karting www.msquaredkarting.com

[Erik Frank]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pete Van Ginkel:


That phrase right there is probably THE number one selling point to the over 25 crowd, which I believe is by far the largest potential market in Karting. (snip)

Pete

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That would be me. Age: 27, Full time job as engineer, been karting for 4 years. Supporter of local kart shops.

It's probably too late in life for me to climb up the progression ladder (except for maybe stock cars). Besides, why would I want to race anything else? You know, go slower for more money...

Nowadays, my aspirations are to progress as an engineer in the motorsports industry. Development driver would be cool....

-erik

[Tim Blaney]

Here is another plug for Rob and Msquared. In the final round, Rob was taken out by a driver trying to over take him. Instead of throwing a temper-tantrum and having an ugly, animated shouting match in the middle of the in fieled. Rob went over, talked to the driver, shook his hand and walked away.

Contrast that to the childish behavior displayed by others, it was very nice to see.

[Charlie Tackett]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar Aguilera:


I can't wait for the day that an Alex Speed type shows up with a pickup and all his things for racing in it. He and his Mechanic go to work at the track and head home afterwards. It can be done but why? With all the money that emits odor from every pit out there Why?

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Well, Oscar, we ain't Speeds and it ain't the ProMoto, but we have traveled to races, such as the WKA National at VIR with the kart on the hithc hauler and everything else stuffed into the back of the Astro van where the 3rd seat had been! THink Jon Anderson may have gotten a picture of it. Any way, we ran our race, won it, threw everything back in the van, hooked the kart to the bumper and drove off.

It's not only ProMoto that is expensive. We considered running the WKA National Enduro series. 8 Races up and down the East coast. Sure only have to count five, but unless you are sure you can go and win those five, better plan on some more!

Guess what? It woul dhave cost us as much to run all their races at it would have cost to run the ProMoto!!!! And that's without a trailer or new truck! What kills any kind of national level racing in this country is travel expenses...hotels, food, lodging, then throw in that other expensive resource...*time*! Some of us have limited #'s of days off we can take. SO forget about going early to practice as some do.

Like Bonnier pointed out in regards to the type A (is that type A personalities, too, Bonnier?). There is something called cost benefit analysis. Well, you knonw what, some of us privateers, or Bonnier Type C racers are also looking at that cost benefit picture...but ours most certainly has nothing to do with any kind of profit!

So we look at races from a different perspective and a different expectation. We don't do this for a living, so we ain't going to make any money at it, it is all out going, no incoming$$ for our effort. We aren't type Bs, ain't got the money for that. We race because we love racing and everything about it. What do we get if we did run and win the WKA NATIONAL Enduro series? Well, probably the same thing we got when Ted when the 125 class at the NAKC a couple of years ago. A nice trophy to stack in the spare room wiht all the other trophies and boxes of plaques. Maybe our name in a small specialty low circulation magazine!

SO this year, we kinda looked at all this from a cost/benefit view point. The benefits s for is is the love of racing and racing wiht good competition, spending time together, seeing old friends, enjoying ourselves and having fun. SO we decided to just race where and when we wanted.

What benefit is their to folks like us and Rob to run a national series or the ProMoto?? Unless we are doing it for the fun of it, the challenge of it, we are essentially getting nothing elsein return for all of our investmenet. As costs rise, those type C folks will have to start looking closer and closer at their own cost/benefit analysis and more than likely, fewer and fewer will choose to particiapte on anything other than maybe a 1 or 2 race shot at it for the "experience".

(BTW, Bonnier....lost about 15lbs, no longer a "B" cup...I know your heartbroken)

[Oscar Aguilera]

Hey Bonnier, when you go deposit your check at the end of the month/week do you deposit the gross amount or the net amount?

You can't say that the racers take into account how much it costs in both time and $$$ to do a race anywhere.

The truck scenario that Charlie has done in real life is attainable but it is the travel time away from work that kills it for that kind of guy. If he doesn't have the $$ to go all out he can't afford to be away from work in the first place.

Why don't we have each chassis manuf. bring a fleet of Rotax on their brand and rent them out. Everyone with enough $$ could fly in and minimize time from work. The $$ in rentals could help offset the costs for the trailer to be there and maybe the pro teams could get closer to breaking even.(they all are losing $$) You could even assign a choice of 2 different gearings and no practice on friday. Pee pick the starting grid and race 2 heats and a final on sunday. Saturday half day practice.

[Tim Blaney]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar Aguilera:
Why don't we have each chassis manuf. bring a fleet of Rotax on their brand and rent them out.

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Because this is shifter kart racing, not Rotax racing?

[Oscar Aguilera]

The topic was cost and going to the PMT. I was trying to please two groups of racers. The factory guys that are outof school running around with the Factory team that are in the business of selling karts so they are not missing any work, and the guys that want to run the "Big" races and can't get all the time and resources needed to compete at that level.

I personally love the shifter. But I can't do it all out, so for now I am in a Rotax.

Dad alwasy said "do it right or don't do it at all"

[Jake Thompson]

I just got back from the Pro Moto Tour in Canby. From What i Can tell it was a well run solid event, with very little controversy. However attendance was down. As i left the event one thing over everything left me feeling like it represented the demise of the Pro Moto Tour, at least in the Super Pro division. That thing was Sweedetech motors. I want to give full credit to Reine, Mike Speed, Scott Speed, and the whole crew, right now they are the best hands down, they get full credit. Still as i walked around the pits after the Super Pro race, all i could sense was dejection amongst everyone who didnt have a fast sweedetech, you know, those ones that sound so much different and really leap out of the corners. I dont blame Trackmagic for not trucking all the way to Barrie, they knew beforehand that the big story would be "3-peat" and many decided not to come to Canby, cuz they knew the story there would be "4-peat". There needs to be limits on motor development. Restrict the port sizes, or the compression something. All racing has restrictions. I know someone will say that for it to be a Pro Series it needs to have open motors, but it doesnt. Cart has restrictions, and we are so far from Cart level we shouldnt even discuss this. We all need to stop worrying about how to make the series professional. Its not pro if it falls apart. The first priority should be making an undisputed, affordable national series. Once that happens then worry about making it Pro. Unfortunately, SKUSA shouldnt just change the engine rules, thats SKUSA's biggest problem "just changing the rules". And besides Reine, Mike and Scott, earned what they have, they deserve to dominate, and thus it isnt fair for the rules to be changed so someone can beat them. They deserve to win until someone catches up to them. If only someone could go back in time to 5 years ago, and tell SKUSA to make a Stock Ignition rule, and limit engine changes, before everyone spent so much money developing these things . Time to stop talking about whats wrong and start putting our heads together and trying to fix the problems.
Jake Thompson
19L

[Rob Mathis]

Jake-

I ran at Canby, and got my butt kicked my Speed...but it wasn't just because of his motor. Swedetech has an excellent motor, but you can't just bolt on a Swdetech and win. Case in point was Stover, he has the "good" Swedetech and he struggled through the weekend. The credit should go to the Speed's and Reine, they are on top of there game right now. If you want to dominate like Scott has done, you need more than motor.
Just my opinion.

-Rob Mathis

[Jake Thompson]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Mathis:
Jake-

I ran at Canby, and got my butt kicked my Speed...but it wasn't just because of his motor. Swedetech has an excellent motor, but you can't just bolt on a Swdetech and win. Case in point was Stover, he has the "good" Swedetech and he struggled through the weekend. The credit should go to the Speed's and Reine, they are on top of there game right now. If you want to dominate like Scott has done, you need more than motor.
Just my opinion.

-Rob Mathis

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Stover "stuck" his good Sweedetech didnt he?

Obviously you can't just throw on a Sweedetech and win, you'd still have to beat Scott
No offense to Speed, i really cant express the respect i have for what they are doing, but, He might still win every race with the motor he had last year, i just believe it is the motor that provides the 3 tenths to half second a lap dominance that we saw during the finals at canby. I just hope nobody gets too discouraged and gives up. Unfortunately, going back to the original topic, trying to catch up to Speed is going to drive up cost. There is just no way to fairly end his dominance unless someone catches up to him. He has worked hard and thus it would be unfair to make rules that would slow him down. My thoughts

[Pete Van Ginkel]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bonnier Moulton:
More fun and less money.
Bonnier
Msquared Karting www.msquaredkarting.com

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That phrase right there is probably THE number one selling point to the over 25 crowd, which I believe is by far the largest potential market in Karting. Karters that start after age 25-30 are also more likely to stick with it for more than three years. How many 18-25 year olds do you see racing karts compared to the other age groups? Once they hit 16-17 yrs. old they discover cars ang girls and start losing interest. It`s also about the time mommy and daddy start making them pay their own way. The over thirty crowd is where the money is and "More fun and less money" could be our motto. That is why I think the Rotax Max will be an even bigger hit than it already is.
Pete

[Bonnier Moulton]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar Aguilera:
Hey Bonnier, when you go deposit your check at the end of the month/week do you deposit the gross amount or the net amount?

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Neither. I deposit my wages or salary which is actually a cost, not a profit.

Don't get on my case Oscar. You were the one slamming racers for not having your impressive business acumen.

[Oscar Aguilera]

OK Bonnier I'll lighten up. For you it is a cost and your total or hopefully some of your net as you are self employed.

SKUSA it is an attitude, some racers have a bad one and most have a good one. You have aq good one Bonnier, I think.

[John Grinager]

I am a brand-new member to this forum, so I think that gives me an interesting opinion on two of these topics:

1) RotaxMax - You know what, I haven't even bought my first kart yet (actively looking for a good used starter package), but I did get my oldest son one already (this will be a family affair). That being said, I know almost nothing about karts. I will be buying a KT100 package to start, because that's what everyone runs in my area, but I'll tell you what, as an absolute neophyte with a pocket of cash ready to spend, if the RotaxMax class had any participants in it, I would spend twice the money for a brand-new setup, because for a performance/hassle/expense combination, it is the ultimate "Weekend warrior" setup, in my eyes. My best friend/racing partner (we are leaving motocross), who knows no more about karting than I do, agrees with me whole heartedly. So there you have it, two completely un-informed rookies, looking to buy karts, we have cash ready, and if the class had participants (which I believe it eventually will), then RotaxMax is what we would be buying. We just figure that we can get into karting cheaper with some nice used setups, learn some things, and the RotaxMax class should grow to an acceptable size right about the time we are ready to step up and make our second round of investments. Mr. Stephen Buckley had some very wise comments that I totally agree with.

2)Skusa PMT - If it's gonna work, it will be all about a SHOW. This whole discussion about expense is moot, in my opinion, because you have to treat it the way motocross promoters did 25 years ago. Supercross was a brilliant idea. Give the world a SHOW!! Take a sport that was previously viewed as nothing but a bunch of tattooed, drug using hooligans and make it a clean, professionally run, wild action show in a VIEWING ARENA and it became a success. Most of us could never afford to run the Supercross circuit, even if we had the talent. But, we still watched EVERY time it came on TV and we attended EVERY event in our area. It kept motorcyles on our mind, kept our delusions of grandeur up, and kept us spending money at the bike shops in the quest for a "weekend version" of supercross stardom. We knew we'd never be a Jeremy, but it was nice to dream. And what's more, it brought it to the rest of the world. It has done wonders for the popularity of motocross and sponshorship. That's what karting needs, regardless of the cost to the privateer. The privateer won't be a privateer very long, if he or she is good, so it will really be just an investment in their future, not a huge expense for some simple weekend glory.

Just my .02.....

[Steve Eady]

The problem with running the Pro Moto tour is they dont pay any money back to the racers but Super Pro. Skusa should go out and get sponcers to put up the cash so there racers will get something in return to help pay for travel costs. My son runs only the Pro tour and skusa regionals. We are one of the lowest budget racers on the tour and now are trying to figure out how to finance the trip to norman OK.