Who's rules do we run

[Doug Welch]

If there is a number one complaint of karters it is that there are too many sanctioning bodies with small but significant differences in the rule books. I was talking with a track owner this past weekend and he was relating some of the difficulties he is having growing his program.

He wants to run an IKF program. But for shifters in his region, most of the guys are SKUSA members and run SKUSA rules. He has decided to run SKUSA rules but has received flack from IKF for not following the IKF rule book for his shifter program. If he decided to run by IKF rules, many of his shifter karts simply would not come for they don't want to make the changes to comply with the IKF rules and since they make up half his program, not a good business move on his part.

He came up with what I think sounds like a resonable solution. He thought that 4 cycle competition should fall under the WKA rule book for they have so many 4 strokes running in the saturday night bull rings, they are a natural for that type of program. Since 2 cycles are so popular in the west under IKF banners, why not have IKF write the rules for 2 strokes. SKUSA is the only orgainzation that has sucessfully run shifter programs all over the country, have them write the rules for shifters.

This gets everybody on the same page. If you run a potatoe digger any where in the country, WKA has your rules and tech procedures. If you run a two stroke, you can go anywhere and the IKF rule book holds. And no matter where you go in the country, the SKUSA rules works for the shifty guys. All it would take is a little cooporation between the sactioning bodies and a 2 or 3 year period bring it about. The messy details as to who gets what money for sactioning which classes could be worked out.

What do you guys think?

Doug

[Rodney Ebersole]

Doug, I also agree this rule stuff is a mess around here. But with your suggestion when we had a race the track owner would have to sign up the racers useing all three sanctioning bodies. Could it be done? That would eliminate 2 cycle WKA events and IKF 4cycle and shifter events and I don't see either WKA or IKF agreeing with that. But your right something needs to be done to keep it simple for the racer and promoter.

[Doug Welch]

Rodney

I don't see a problem. For WKA events, they simply put in their rule book, see IKF or SKUSA rules for your class. Same for IKF. Same for SKUSA if they decide to run clutch karts. You as a racer would be able to go and run a WKA event with your Briggs Modified and know that the rules would be the same as if you ran an IKF event. All sactioning bodies would be able to run any classes they wanted, just as long as they ran the appropreate rule book.

Doug

[John Denman]

And then for those of us in the center of the US, we have KART to add to the list.

This will make it real fun for our club level stuff since we have IKF knocking on the door, and for non-shifters is almost the same as KART rules. Shifters are where they deviate.

KART is adding two experimental classes for 80Jr. One is stock motor spec, the other per SKUSA. If we remain KART, it will be my suggestion that we combine the 2 stockers at 320 lbs, and the 5-7 SKUSA 80Jr at 340 lbs for our club races. If we move to IKF rules, I will suggest we put a 20 lb handicap on the IKF rules for the 80jr, and 30 lb on Sr.

KART does not allow PI on 125 heavy 125 lite, or 80 Sr classes. We have (3) 125 classes at our club track, Expert (SKUSA S1 rules) 125 lite and heavy to kart rules. then we have S2 and FIC coming as many of our racers run SKUSA. We really don't want more than 3 classes of 125's.

This is where the rubber meets the road on the issues of fragmentation. Major sanctioning bodies lead the way with class proliferation, and these classes inevitably trickle down to the local level.

First we had IKF, then WKA, then SKUSA, then KART, and now NAKA. Whenever a group of racers don't get what they want from the sanctioning body, they go and invent a new one.

Not much of a dilemma for that 1 percent of karters who have the time and money to focus on running the mother of all nationals, but its absolute chaos to the local clubs trying to accomodate their many members.

In Denton Texas we harbor KART, IKF and SKUSA competitors and have a grand total of 9 different sets of rules just for 125's in our local market. We have about 20 125 competitors.

Good question Doug. Maybe I'll buy a set of tarot cards to come up with an answer.

[Stephen Buckley]

Doug,
I'm not sure what your political persuasion is, however.... it's potato, not potatoe!

[John Burgess]

Doug your plan is beautifully simple and it makes a ton of sense. I have always told people that pick something you are good at and you will make a living. You have picked out of each organization what their strength is:
1) WKA = 4 cycle
2) IKF = 2 cycle/ non shifter
3) Skusa = Shifters
As for loss of the grands, wouldn’t it be a stronger program for Karting if each origination put on a show of their strengths! I am not an insurance agent but it would seem that combining this way could help to provide stronger, better, and possible cheaper coverage.
JohnB

[ October 22, 2001: Message edited by: John Burgess ]

[Randy Fergus]

Gentlemen! Gentlemen! I'm afraid we're going to have to put a stop to all this common sense and practical solution finding in this string. What's next? A CART/IRL reunification? Seriously, I think we might be onto something here. How do we pursue this further? Maybe even get it implemented before we old geezers retire!!!!

[Russ McGrane]

Would I be living in too much of a dream world to think that maybe each of these could be incorporated into one rule book? There are many parts of the rule book other than engine standards (4stroke, 2stroke and shifters). For example track saftey, kart standards, race procedures, even protests. Could one rule book be adopted and accepted by the different organizations? Perhaps if it was not viewed as the rule book of a "competing organization". In other words, the IKF might be more willing to accept the American Karting standards rule book (just made up that name) then to accept SKUSA rules. I would suggest that the IKF rule book is perhaps the best starting point, as it seems the most comprehensive. With WKA, IKF and SKUSA responsible for the technical sections of 4stroke, 2stroke and shifters as doug suggested, and someone else (???), who the organizations agree upon, responsible for the overall rule book, we could have one set of rules that we know apply regardless of where we run or who we run with.

OK, like I said I am in a dream world...

Russ

[Doug Welch]

The how to run a race stuff could be left to each organization. That way they could think they have still have some control. I was more concerned about the tech specs on the karts. I think that this area, more than any other is what keeps one racer from crossing the line and going to another organization's race. It is the one area that costs the most money to change.

Doug

[Chaz Clover]

AS much as I am loathe to agree with Doug on any point , I think he makes some good points.

However if we _could_ get IKF, WKA and SKUSA (And lets not forget Rotax) together on these issues, we'd still need to have a single body to oversee and coordinate the whole schmere.

That begs the question, why do we need separate bodies to oversee karting regulations? Why can't we have just one? Why can't we have a single organization to set up, maintain and enforce the homologations and leave the race-to-race business to a regional structure of some sort.

Throw in a Big-Time National Pro Series so Doug has somehwhere to race with his kids and everybody's happy.

I believe I know the answer to that question and it's no, we can't have The Best of All Possible Worlds in karting. We're Americans, and we don't do things that way. If someone doesn't like the way SKUSA handles shifter karts they are welcome to pick up their marbles and start their own game.

On the lighter side we could simply abolish SKUSA, IKF and WKA and everybody race Rotax, but then I'd have to endure Doug poking around my tent wanting to know what jetting to use

Chaz Clover
http://www.kartmonster.com

[Debbie Kuntze]

OKAY, what does the road race organizations run since at any given race, anytime, there are 2 cycle (sit-up and laydown), all sizes of shifties (sit-up and laydown) and even at times (depends on area track is in) 4 cycles (sit-up and laydown)!?!
Debbie Kuntze

[John Burgess]

I believe that the original idea in this forum was to have a common rule book issued by an organization that has the most skill in interpreting, determining and writing the tech specs for each type of engine (i.e. 2 cycle, 4 cycle, shifters). Some of us deviated and wanted each kart group to run a series, but this is probably not a good idea. As Doug stated it would be nice to travel across the US and have the same tech rules apply wherever you race. When I started building my own 4 cycles, I purchased a WKA rules/tech manual and found it very similar to the IKF book. The problem is there are just enough differences in the rules that would trap racers if they moved from series to series.
A tech manual is not an easy thing to write, considering you have a built in audience of tens of thousands looking at each word, phrase, nuisances, trying to find the magic bullet. Add in the fact that each organization has to have experts in various fields, why not use a pool of experts in the karting community to write the tech specs for a particular engine series. Yes the promoter of each event could potentially have three sets of tech specs on hand but his general race procedures would still follow the parent organization that is the sanctioning body of the race.

[Roger Ruthhart]

Hey guys. We're (Rock Island Grand Prix) located centrally in the country with plenty of overlap and no sanctioning body ties. For what it's worth, what we do is: a) run SKUSA rules for gearbox classes (without spec tire requirements, etc.); b) Rotax series rules for Rotax, and c) in 2-cycle and 4-cycle classes we run BOTH IKF and WKA rules. Whenever there is a conflict, the more lenient rule applies. That way, if you're legal with EITHER organization, you are legal in Rock Island. Tech folks just need to know both sets of rules. It's worked well for a number of years.