Repost: CART and kart together?

Doug Welch · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2001 2:58 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Jeff

You make a point that goes againest the very thing that is going on. Bobby R. stated that there were too many national champs and that made it difficult for a car owner to know who's who. Yet CART is helping start another series with a new sactioning body with out a rule book, racers or a track record. Makes sense to me.

Given what I have seen from CART of late. Kart to CART with the WKA that went no where. Ameri-Kart that went no where. Engine rules delays that lost them 3 engine builders after next year. These guys look like just the kind of self destructive goof balls that karters should get hooked up with. Sorry, I'm being sarcastic.

From top to bottom, for sprint shifters, the SuperNats is THE race to win. From top to bottom, the very best fo the best are there. From SuperPro to 60 novice, every driver has won races is most likely the best from their area. The back markers are very good. Just making the A main is a major accomplishment. To win it, you are the best.

It doesn't need to be a independant race like some suggest to be a "true" national champ. After all, even an independant race has to run under someone's rules. To be sactioned by the biggest shifter organization in the country only adds to its stature.

Doug

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Doug Welch ]

Mark MacDonald · Joined: 05 Aug 2001 Posts: 124

I think the real problem here is that karting, and racing for that matter, has always been fragmented here in the US. It's never been just one type of racing. Honestly if you want a true national champion then you need a 5 race seires with one race on a road course, another on a sprint track, paved oval, dirt oval, and a drag strip.

So obviously we're just talking about road racing. Not really sprint track racing either, as no Champ cars race on .6 mile courses.

Moreover, how does CART wish to increase the entries? Bringing new people into the sport at the national level is not only way to expensive (for them) but also not realistic. A new karter has to start somewhere, true. That's traditionally a local track. Where it doesn't cost big bucks to run. Keep in mind a large segment of karting spends less money in a year than we do in one or two races.

The same questions and problems arose when they announced the FSA World Championship would run with the F1 races. It sounds great until you realize there's no practice and the race takes place on thurs.

Mark MacDonald
MTM Karting www.mtmkart.com
330.497.3585

P.S. On the same token, keep in mind the difference between PR and real life. There's a big difference between team owners watching races and team owners looking for tallent. In the PR world it looks good for CART and the team owners to support karting. In the real world the people in Atlantics, who know how to find money, are the ones that the team bosses know about. No one at the top goes too far out of their way to learn about the upcoming stars, b/c those upcoming stars always look for the people on the top...

Oh, and on a personal note I'd love to be able to run at CART races...

Michael Wiley · Joined: 17 Oct 2001 Posts: 2

Doug are you an investor in SKUSA? Maybe you should reserve judgment until all the facts are out regarding this new series. It may or may not be something good for the future of karting. One things for sure and that is that none of the organizations currently sanctioning races in America are truly interested in us except how much money they can gouge from us. Besides what if this new series turns out to be the great saviour for karting? Are you going to deny yourself the opportunity to be involved?

Anyway im going dirt oval racing!

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Michael Wiley ]

Warren Currie · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:46 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

I have only recently started karting (2 years ago - I am 36 years old) - in my 'real' life I own and run a snowboard shop. I have been involved with snowboarding for the past 19 years and have seen many different 'groups' try to run events and series. The only ones that have ever stayed around are the ones that are run by snowboarders, for snowboarders.
While any exposure that karting gets will only help the sport, I feel that the sport of karting as a whole needs to run its self and having 'another' group try to put together 'another' series will only lead to futher fragmentation of the sport.
At least that's my 2¢.

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Welch:
You make a point that goes againest the very thing that is going on. Bobby R. stated that there were too many national champs and that made it difficult for a car owner to know who's who. Yet CART is helping start another series with a new sactioning body with out a rule book, racers or a track record.

Doug,

As I was doing with my previous post, let me again merely pass along information that I garnered at Laguna Seca. I have no point to make, I'm simply relaying what I was told.

Rahal and every person up at that table is acutely aware that the introduction of this program has the chance of fragmenting the sport. Here is the rest of his quote...

"With this Stars program, and the notion of one national champion, the team owners will know who to keep their eye on."

Personally, what I infer from the statements of the NAKA/CART/Stars folks is:

They feel there is no existing sanctioning body that is capable of taking karting to the next level. So, they're going to do their best to create one.

I make no judgment on their plans, but that is quite clearly their mission. They obviously disagree with your opinion that such an organization already exists.

Jeff

Rick Senechal · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:48 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

Oscar,
You are correct. CART needs karts!

The great thing about NASCAR is anybody can be a member. For the price of a kart you could be racing a junker at your local track and be part of NASCAR. This isn't for me but it builds strong grassroots support for NASCAR as drivers and their families feel they are part of Winston Cup and the NASCAR family.

For most people, open wheel racing is hard to relate to because the cost of entry is very high. If CART wants to grow it should be embracing karts and develop a class of open wheeled cars for local tracks. Imagine Formula 500 or similar sized cars. I know Stephan and I would sign up!!

Change sucks and many people have failed before to bring karting in the US together but I think we should at least let someone try to make it work. CART and NAKA do have one important thing going for them, money. The life blood of racing.

Eric Little · Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 4 Location: Placentia, CA

quote:
Originally posted by Mark MacDonald:

So obviously we're just talking about road racing. Not really sprint track racing either, as no Champ cars race on .6 mile courses.

This is an assumption that many seem to be making but I am not convinced that it is true. In the follow-up story on this site, it states, "Furthermore, a comprehensive national marketing program for karting will be launched in 2002, and this will focus upon on-site promotions and 'test drives' not only at CART races, but also major non-automotive events, state fairs, trade shows, etc."

Test drives at CART races would have to be done on a separate track, as there is no time in the schedule to allow the general public to run the big track in a kart.

I could easily see a combination of event using the road course at places like Laguna Seca and running a purpose built kart track at other events. I thought I heard that Road America just completed a karting facility this year and it would not take much imagination to build one inside of one of the ovals (similar to Charlotte).

Take Care
Eric Little

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Eric Little ]

Chuck Skowron · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 1152

quote:
Originally posted by Eric Little:

...I could easily see a combination of event using the road course at places like Laguna Seca and running a purpose built kart track at other events. I thought I heard that Road America just completed a karting facility this year and it would not take much imagination to build one inside of one of the ovals (similar to Charlotte)...

Take Care
Eric Little

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Eric Little ]

This is what I think is going to happen. The majority of the venues will be on parking lots or something similar. Or a sprint kart track at the CART location (Road America is the only one I know of.).

Judging by their (NAKA) comments about wanting this series to be the "first rung on the later", I would think they are only looking for drivers around the ages of 10 - 18, because that seems to be the age level that aspiring car drivers remain in karting right now, (and sometimes, even less than 18). So if the statement that no one under 18 are presently allowed to race on the full-sized tracks is true, I doubt that the new series will be holding any races on them.

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Chuck Skowron ]

Stephen Buckley · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 861

Hey Rick!!!! You are right. I'm actually sorta kinda pursuing the F500 thing. I got fired up watching the Valvoline Runoffs on Speedvision. I'm arranging to go look at a few cars soon. They also have a mailing list. See http://www.f500.org There seems to be a fair number of cars in our area. I'm trying to find out whether they run ICSCC or SCCA. I'd keep my RotaxMax, though. Waaaay too much fun! Especially with the new Monroe track coming on line soon (hope, hope) and the new track in Chilliwack, BC.

[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Buckley ]

[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Buckley ]

[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Stephen Buckley ]

Joe Klenotich · Joined: 30 Jul 2001 Posts: 52 Location: Lombard IL

Fact: You take care of your own, don't expect someone else to.
Until a single,true national organization is working for the betterment of all karting, all the blather about one championship is just that.

Fact: the pros should be scouting talent as young as jrs but they aren't--it's what YOU can bring(aka $$)not what they can do for you.

Fact:Money and only money drives motorsports.
For those karters with budgets of 25K, 50K or more per year; after a while reality sets in and its up, out, or move on.

Face reality as it is--participation levels are soft--look at WKA M Cup end season points; how many classes had drivers that fully participated at all events. 5-6-8 per class. Why are so many shifters for sale? A real recession, which a few of us can actually remember, and club racing will look awful good.

Fact: CART and IRL are financially unstable; NACSAR?--why do you think they call it the Winston Cup. How is CART who can't take care of its own going to put karting under its wing as a long term investment.

1-one true karting organization
2-pro series with credentialled drivers
3-long term major sponsor commitment; e.g, Winston, PPG, FedEx and others who bring media exposure(TV)skills and know how.
4-$$ and support BACK to the drivers.

?? How did the American LeMAns series do it this year. CanAM related product has been a loser for years except among us gearheads, but there it was on NBC, weekend prime time. And a good show as well.

Perhaps karting needs to re-assess the segmentation of its business--club racers and pro racers. I hate to mention SCCA but that's one model.

Is karting a marketable product--if so, and we all believe it is, then some major sponsor out there must be able to see a return.

For God sakes's--The Gravity Games--if we aren't more interesting than a bunch of plywood ramp rats, we better hang it up. We can go to Norway every Saturday and be home in time for dinner.

WANTED--Vision

Charlie Tackett · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2001 6:45 am Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

From what I have heard, the ALMS was the second most viewed motorsport behind NASCAR and according to Panoz is doing very well financially , or so he said. Trans-Am seems to continue to be making a good resurrgnce and apparently has a good package lined up for next year.

Maybe instead of kart-to-CART, we should be looking at kart-to-ALMS??

Chuck Skowron · Joined: 19 Jul 2001 Posts: 1152

quote:
Originally posted by Charlie Tackett:

...Maybe instead of kart-to-CART, we should be looking at kart-to-ALMS??

Yeah, I would MUCH rather be associated with the IMSA ALMS, rather than CART. ALMS racing just seems to be far more interesting to me than the Champ Cars right now. And certainly, ALMS has far greater potential for growth.

Greg Keresi · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2001 12:24 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

The idea that this is another rung in the ladder system to champ car and using this as a marketing tool for promotion and exposure is still too narrow. There's alot more than just the champ car ladder that US karters deserve in this country from the motorsport authority in the US.

quote:
Originally posted by Charlie Tackett:

Maybe instead of kart-to-CART, we should be looking at kart-to-ALMS??

Dave Stevens · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2001 9:50 pm Post subject: Repost: CART and kart together?

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Klenotich:
Fact: CART and IRL are financially unstable; NACSAR?--why do you think they call it the Winston Cup.

It's called Winston Cup because they pay a boatload of cash for the naming rights.

To call CART "financially unstable", is a misnomer and not correct from a financial standpoint, compared to the rest of the market. Specifically, what do you base that on? Have you looked at the financials?

Since CART is traded publically, the financials are open for all to see. CART stock is outperforming most fo the S&P 500, is still has a decent return on investment, as long as you got in before the market tanked last year. There is a 20% profit margin kids, something not to be taken lightly.

While CART has had some issues recently, current financials and performance indicate the company is profitable. That is more than one can say for many other publically traded companies. While the P/E isn't better than Microsoft, it's much better than many other mainstream companies.

Dave

Eric Little · Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 4 Location: Placentia, CA

quote:
Originally posted by Charlie Tackett:
Maybe instead of kart-to-CART, we should be looking at kart-to-ALMS??

Sounds like a great idea. Now we just need one more new sanctioning body that will unite karters for a true National Championship under the IMSA banner.

Sorry, could not resist.

Take Care
Eric Little