Need Track Designers/Architects

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

I work with race track promoters for IKF and am always looking for good resources for the promoters who are in the development stages. Does anyone on the list have good recommendations for qualified and experienced track designers/architects I can check out and refer promoters to for assistance? I refer some to Tom Argy, but would like a bit larger selection as Tom is so wonderful, he stay's too busy. I need this for sprint/roadrace and speedway design.

Any racing business consultant leads would be helpful as well.

Thanks

[Darren Swisher]

Rhonda, Call Robert McGuffy of Entertainment Architecture @ 317-255-8875

Darren

[Patricia Hechler]

Rhonda:

I know that this is beginning to look rather suspicious, but, I am a State Registered Landscape Architect in Ohio, am a partner in a limited liability firm, S&H Engineering, that specializes in road layout and water management, did my master's on the safety of road course layout, have in my possession rather dated FIA sprint track layout specifications, but, unfortunately, have no track layouts to my credentials.

You know my number. I am probably not the best candidate, but knew that this request falls into my normal business practice.

My, honestly, I am not making all of this up!!!

Patti Heinrich

p.s. Cannot edit this message, as any time that I do, it crashes!

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

Patti, you are a woman of many talents! You are really a surprising lady who I just have to get to know better! I will call you soon, I promise.

Thanks also Darren, I will contact Robert McGuffy for more background info. So far, I've only received four recommendations and only one with actual experience and educational qualifications. Not that the others couldn't do the job, but when you start a selection process, experience and degree's always jump out.

This is an area of expertise within our karting community which seems to be really lacking. Perhaps this could be an area of study to suggest to our racing kids who want a career in karting or motorsports! Wish I'd gotten the hint from my parents way back then! Maybe I'd have finished the full four years!

[Roy Randolph]

Rhonda:

This is a area that really needs work. One of the biggest needs is helping "locals" not only with designing a racing kart "complex" but also with the needed ideas to finance a complex. Surely there are some great financial minds out there that could help in this area.

I am involved at this moment of developing a first class Karting facility in Texas. First the first time I can say that I am optimistic of the progress. Good luck with your search and I would be interested in learning what you find out.

[ddroger]

I seem to recall seeing a note somewhere that indicated that the "CARBZ" group (CRG karts, Gearbox racewear, SSC racing)have a division that does kart race track layout work.

This is not an endorsement: I just recall seeing the press release.

Saint Lawrence Motorsports Park have a nice track, very well laid out. You could check with Joe Bertrand (slmp.net) to find out who did his.

Don Roger

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

Thanks Roy and Don for the input. I will certainly check out your suggestions, Don. I didn't know SRG did this. And yes, Roy, I get so many calls from people who need help with business development from getting land, financing, design and construction. After all this is complete, so many go through a learn on their own phase and this can sometimes be costly and time consuming mistakes. This is not an area IKF should advise people in because we should stay competition oriented. It's nice, however, to have good resources you can refer people to.

Thanks again

[Patrick Hubbell]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rhonda Mims-Brown:
I work with race track promoters for IKF and am always looking for good resources for the promoters who are in the development stages. Does anyone on the list have good recommendations for qualified and experienced track designers/architects I can check out and refer promoters to for assistance? I refer some to Tom Argy, but would like a bit larger selection as Tom is so wonderful, he stay's too busy. I need this for sprint/roadrace and speedway design.

Any racing business consultant leads would be helpful as well.

Thanks

---

If you want ideas about how to configure a track ask a racer. I would want elevation changes, esses, banked turn, and a long straight away, grass infeild and even with the track's surface. Rounded curbs not square. Shade at the grid, a play area for smaller children(swings,sand box,slide etc.), Shaded picnic area, running water and regular bathrooms not porta-potties and grandstands with shade.

The most important thing to remember after freshly paving a kart track is don't race on it untill after the rain has come and gone. In other words let it cure slow and long. To many tracks/clubs are to anxious to run on the new pavement. Pave in late fall and race on it in early spring.

[Gary Robinson]

Hi Rhonda,

Karbz, Inc. race track design and developemtnt division is Raceplex.

They are involved in several projects currently and have a lot to offer.

Website sscracing.com

GR

[Glenn Holland]

Rhonda,

Check out the piece on the new Briggs & Stratton Motorplex at Road America in Central Region News on EKN. I was there last weekend and I mention the architect, who is affiliated with Raceplex/Karbz.

The track was pretty impressive.

Glenn

[michael coello]

quote:

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Originally posted by Glenn Holland:
Rhonda,

Check out the piece on the new Briggs & Stratton Motorplex at Road America in Central Region News on EKN. I was there last weekend and I mention the architect, who is affiliated with Raceplex/Karbz.

The track was pretty impressive.

Glenn

---

I have to respectively disagree with you. I felt the facility was poorly designed and not well thought out. It was not safe, did not provide for passing opportunities, was not good for spectators, and the flow of traffic on and off and from the pits to the track was terrible.
Safety obviously was not a key factor in the construction of this track. It has a number of areas only 15 feet from the racing surface that you could fall into holes with minimum drops of 10 feet or more. In one area you are going downhill into an off camber corner that points you right at a 12 foot drop. My karts have never been equiped with a parachute but in this instance it may be recommended. There also are no gravel runoffs and no curbing. The track goes from 30 feet wide to only 18' wide in places.
The pit in crosses the pit out. How anyone can even think of having a race where more than a 20 kart field comes off the track and another 20 kart field has to go back on is beyond me. The delays in the racing program would be tremendous. The pit area is a quarter mile from the racing surface. And that is if you get the premium spots. I do not know about you but to have a practice day at a facility like that would turn anyone into a marathoner. Because the pits are so far from the track no one sees the racing except for the competitors in that race. Not good for entertainment. The stands to watch the race are far from most of the racing action. At one point the karts are more than 400 feet from the stands and you actually loose site of the karts. This would be fine if this was not supposed to be a well thought out facility.
Lastly as for fun factor or set up to be challenging and offer good racing. Well I think the designers should have spent some time at Europes FMK class 'A' tracks. Salbris, France for example is almost a mile long and almost every turn has a legitimate passing opportunity with multiple types of corners and it looked like a ball to drive. This track in no way looked fun and for 8/10th of a mile only had two legitimate places for a true out braking manuever. Maybe if they removed the chicane just as you get rolling down the straight and rearrange the cornering as you descend the hill you may be able to save the pleasure part of racing at this facility. A new facility such as this was not setup with large races or to be national caliber track. It lacks the professional layout and forethought necessary to appease the type of people that spend thousands of dollars to attend these events.
The last big downer was that the track costs $3,000 per day to hold an event at. Wow! Someone obviously is cashing in on the name (Road America) with its storied past and picturesque views and not on the true value the kart track should offer.

Sadly disappointed!

Michael Coello

[Patricia Hechler]

Michael:

Please know that I in no way am pretending to have seen that track... I had my hands full in the carrousel on the main track, and never looked over to see if I could see anything from my vantage point. Nor do I profess to understand anything concerning the layout and ammenities of this facility.

What I can say is that there may be a key area where things can go astray in the proceedings of the construction of this facility. Let me explain. Before I do, however, please know that I in no way intend to flame any person linked to this facility.

First off, the client always has the last word in the layout of any project, outside of those constraints set forth by zoning and planning commissions, city by city. Secondly, as an organization that cannot provide stamped drawings (meaning that either a civil engineer, or landscape architect) (or a c.e. or architect for building structures) has signed off for the permits, then the plans must go from that particular architect to another firm for final approval. While they are culpible (sp) for the layout of the place, they say they are not licensed to provide grading and drainage plans. Well, grading problems are one of the areas that you mention as being somewhat iffy. (As for the layout things you refer to, they are set by the architect).

What I am getting at is that there are many individuals involved in the project when things are sent from firm to firm. Yes, I agree, if the pits are too far from the track, stands aren't easy to get to, and the track narrows in portions, then things are not okie-fine. In fact, as for the track narrowing, the F.I.A. (or ACCUS, which is the U.S. affiate) sets forth minimum track lengths and widths that actually determine the amount of "traffic" that is allowed on the course at one time. The shorter the track, and the narrower the surface, the fewer the karts that are allowed onto the surface at a time. In fact, the F.I.A. even states what the minimum surface width is to be, for licensed events to even consider running on them.

Now, onto the construction phase. If the construction is not observed by the civil engineer, landscape architect, or architect, expect to find problems. These people must visit the site on a regular basis in order to make sure that the project is going according to plans. Several projects of mine come to mind where, upon my arrival, I had to initiate changes to the construction to bring construction up to the requirements set forth on the construction plans and in the written specifications.

I hope this helps explain some things. Does it answer all of your questions? No. Does it mean that all anyone is capable of is not so good projects? No. Does it say that this is a not so good project? No. It just is an explaination that I hope makes some sense, and helps people who are looking into design understand that there is a lot of interaction in building anything on this level. (And, boy, am I glad that my partner is a Civil Engineer... He helps to fill the civil gaps in my registration very nicely, indeed).

Take care.

[Rhonda Mims-Brown]

Thanks Patrick, Michael and Patti for your input.

Patrick, you have some great suggestions and many similar likes to my own regarding race tracks...love those elevation changes! Running water and bathrooms are a must these days and often cut in the budget of smaller tracks and club type facilities.

Michael, thanks so much for your honest input on the new Briggs & Stratton Motorplex at Road America. Perhaps you ought to be a consultant to architects!

Lastly, Patti, you are still a marvel. You could be the watch dog over all the sources! I understand completely what you are saying and can related it to building a home. For example, I know the architect who designed our home needed a lot of assistance and help to come up with ways to design a home the way we wanted. In addition, an architect doesn't always stay on top of the process after his plans and it's up to the builder to know all areas of his business. This is why I seek qualified people to refer as consultants.

Thanks again.

[Jeff Braun]

>Michael, thanks so much for your honest input on the new Briggs & Stratton Motorplex at Road America. Perhaps you ought to be a consultant to architects! <

Rhonda:
Mike should be a consultant, on any kart track built in the US. He designed and installed the best curbs of any track we have been to in the US, at Dousman WI. The curbs are like the FIA curbing on a F1 track. You can run on them but not off the edges. If you make a mistake, or get pushed and go clear over them you do not destroy the kart. If more tracks had curbs like these I would have a far smaller pile of bent spindles and axles
Jeff Braun

[MARC ZARTARIAN]

Well said Mike, Ditto Jeff.


MZ