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Jim McMahon
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 2664
Location: United States, St. Paul,
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 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tyson Henry wrote: | | So if I have two exact karts, exact gearing, blah blah blah....and one has an extra 2 hp, and both have enough gear to not max out on the straight, then the one with the extra 2hp isn't going to go faster? |
I think what they are saying is that more peak doesnt always translate to a higher top speed (kart aero sucks) but you may get to your top speed faster. Only way to really know is to time the karts between two points on the straight. Peak power doesn't translate to fast times anyway. The difference between the a hot '99 and a hot '01 is pretty interesting.
I think a good example was when I ran a CR80 on a road course one day and a CR125 the next. Top speed was about the same at a smidge over 100, but the 125 was significantly faster in laptimes because it got up to 90MPH MUCH faster than the CR80.
I like and agree with what Riley said. The problem is that it introduces the possibility of excuses and butthurt when someone gets beaten. They will say its the motor other than fess up that its probably setup, driving or tuning.
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Enzo Iadevaia
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 198
Location: United States, New York, Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Tyson a kart with 40hp spinning at lets say 13k rpm on the straight is going to go the same speed as a 35hp kart at 13k rpm on the straight (same gearing of course)..
HP does not determine max speed. It allows you to get there faster. |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Enzo Iadevaia wrote: | Tyson a kart with 40hp spinning at lets say 13k rpm on the straight is going to go the same speed as a 35hp kart at 13k rpm on the straight (same gearing of course)..
HP does not determine max speed. It allows you to get there faster. |
Forget it, discussing these topics with you guys is pointless. Did you even READ my post? Do you think I don't know that? 
Pointless....pointless.....pointless. |
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Enzo Iadevaia
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 198
Location: United States, New York, Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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you right it is pointless.. However you brought it up...
All these KZ moto debates are pointless.. Most guys are brainwashed..
you said your hitting the same speeds as other karts so you must have same hp right? All im saying is unless your measuring the amount of time it took you guys to get to that speed your wasting you time.. |
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Jimmy McNeil
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1453
Location: United States, California, visalia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Funny. Your guys argument mite hold water if they mandated you run a certain gear. If you have the 40hp engine that's running out of gear early, you would most likely change gears. |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimmy McNeil wrote: | | Funny. Your guys argument mite hold water if they mandated you run a certain gear. If you have the 40hp engine that's running out of gear early, you would most likely change gears. |
Thank you!!!! |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Enzo Iadevaia wrote: | you right it is pointless.. However you brought it up...
All these KZ moto debates are pointless.. Most guys are brainwashed..
you said your hitting the same speeds as other karts so you must have same hp right? All im saying is unless your measuring the amount of time it took you guys to get to that speed your wasting you time.. |
There is only so much distance. We are both driving on the same road..... Not like I got to accelerate for 100ft more than the other guys did.
And obviously you could make a bit less peak power but have a wider powerband and possibly attain the same speeds given a set distance. Either way, average HP, peak HP, in order for two karts to achieve the same speed at the end of a set distance they HAVE to have relatively similar power numbers. Why doesn't a KT100 hit the same speeds as a CR125? Obviously because the KT100 guys just need to gear their karts better. |
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Enzo Iadevaia
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 198
Location: United States, New York, Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| glad to see this post living up to it's name.. |
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Randy Pierson
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 232
Location: United States, Minnesota, Avon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Tyson,
From the info I gathered ( John Denman actually has data on this), if your corner exit speed is higher than kart A...then your kart ( kart B ) will hit the same top speed in the the same distance.
So...if your motor was making less power...you are a better driver!!
And this is where guys like Jimmy and such have it all over guys like me. Their corner entry and then corner exit is so much better than us "recreational" drivers it's rediculous. That is why I road race...it gives me a fighting chance.
If you can find the article on Kartweb it is worth the read. The 2 engines in his test were a mod honda and a Tm ICC. He came up with a number like it took 6hp to gain back on the straight what they lost in corner exit. But in your posts it would explain alot of what you were asking. |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy Pierson wrote: | Tyson,
From the info I gathered ( John Denman actually has data on this), if your corner exit speed is higher than kart A...then your kart ( kart B ) will hit the same top speed in the the same distance.
So...if your motor was making less power...you are a better driver!!
And this is where guys like Jimmy and such have it all over guys like me. Their corner entry and then corner exit is so much better than us "recreational" drivers it's rediculous. That is why I road race...it gives me a fighting chance.
If you can find the article on Kartweb it is worth the read. The 2 engines in his test were a mod honda and a Tm ICC. He came up with a number like it took 6hp to gain back on the straight what they lost in corner exit. But in your posts it would explain alot of what you were asking. |
I am not asking questions. You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. Not trying to be rude, but you aren't exactly telling me earth shattering facts here.
Fairly certain I mention exit corner speed in one of my earlier posts and how that would change speed at the end of the straight. I don't think I am a better driver or even have more power than the really fast guys (obviously). The WHOLE point I am trying to make is that there just isn't that much disparity between top and bottom. You haven't given a single argument yet that even remotely disproves what I am saying. |
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Byron Rothenhoefer
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 339
Location: United States, Virginia, Leesburg
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Just to add more fuel to the fire. Randy if you're not as good as Jimmy at kart setup or racing then you should road race? Are you saying lesser drivers should roadrace instead? I seem to remember Jimmy having some roadrace fun. Maybe on one of his "off" days?
In road racing and I'm sure at a lesser degree in sprint racing less hp = lower mph, especially when you throw in aero drag.
The last time I was at a SKUSA event I raced against app 70 stock Hondas. I haven't seen that many KZs at the track, ever!
Nothing against KZ, I think the new engines are stout. More on par with the mods power. Where as before mods were hands down more powerful than ICCs.
When RS pistons became 300 friggin $ the mod got moth balled, so stocker it will be.
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DR Kart
Brian Fisher Racing Engines
Last edited by Byron Rothenhoefer on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Randy Pierson
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 232
Location: United States, Minnesota, Avon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in total agreement with you which is what I mean't by my post. That the nut behind the wheel makes a bigger impact than 1 or 2 or 4 hp.
Byron,
I road race because I'm old and get tired sprinting.. This reading into stuff on here is soooo over the top. |
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Enzo Iadevaia
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 198
Location: United States, New York, Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Your right tyson it's pointless to discuss it any further..
All stock moto's are the same since their spec engines and there's no major difference between them |
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Tyson Henry
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Location: United States, Texas, Arlington
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Enzo Iadevaia wrote: | Your right tyson it's pointless to discuss it any further..
All stock moto's are the same since their spec engines and there's no major difference between them |
Which is exactly what I said right?
Some of you KZ people sure are hard to deal with. |
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Byron Rothenhoefer
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 339
Location: United States, Virginia, Leesburg
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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More fuel....
Randy I don't know how old you are , but lets say I'm not 21 either. Sprint racing, which I've only gotten into the last couple years, is definitely more physically demanding, but quite the rush! 
Enzo, same **** applies to KZs as stockers. If ya wanna win KZ you gotta have a Tech Sav engine , maybe buy 5 different pipes, dyno them all and see which is best. Throw a few carbs in for good measure. When it comes to racing $ ( and brains) is the only limiting factor to how much performance you can squeeze from your equipment. whether its the latest carb setup or a new chassis for every event. Racers take it as far as they can afford.
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DR Kart
Brian Fisher Racing Engines |
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