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Behind the Laptop: If I Had a Million Dollars...
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David Cole
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Joined: 18 Jul 2001
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Location: United States, Michigan, Comstock Park

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Behind the Laptop: If I Had a Million Dollars... Reply with quote

Please take a few minutes to read my latest column.

http://www.ekartingnews.com/news_info.php?n=21693

And please post your feedback, ideas and opinions on the topic.

Thank you.
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Last edited by David Cole on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total
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John Matthews



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1992
Location: United States, Michigan, Williamsburg

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David,

I'm waiting for the snow to melt too Laughing I'm a little farther north than you up here on Grand Traverse Bay. If all goes well we'll have a little something going with a private grasspass style track this summer, if that goes well maybe we'll get it paved and start a regular program Cool

The class structure you laid out would work and be great for the sport if we could only get everyone behind it. Key is having a rational system with affordable beginner and sportsman classes, love the open engine concept for those that want to step up or have different equipment. There is a lot of decent used equipment out there that could be competitive in that kind of scenario, we just need ways to get it on track.

Don't know if a lotto jackpot would be enough but it would at least be a good start, I just purchased my ticket, wish me luck....

Cheers,
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David Cole
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John.

I'm guessing no one in karting won the powerball this weekend. Wink
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Keith Bridgeman



Joined: 24 Aug 2001
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Location: United States, Minnesota, Farmington

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the class structure you put out there makes a lot of sense.

Trouble is getting clubs to stick with it. The club nearest to me is pretty much a World Formula track. Pushed that engine so hard its now the only class they have. Before that they where selling the Vampire engine. Bad choices have made for a very small club that trying to get things back going again.

Everyone starts racing with a club. Then they get board and want to venture out to a regional race, then they love that competition and then they shot for a national race. If your on some oddball engine that is dead from the start.

The one thing I really don't like about karting now is the spec approach. It might be best for growing the sport right now in down times I guess. For Jr. classes its the way to go for sure.
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David Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the issue where the industry is at the local level. Clubs are doing what they can to survive. My home track has a WF class, which is almost the Masters class as it is all 4-cycle. But we are talking at most 50 racers total at the track. Obviously, the industry is a major factor in what clubs allow and don't allow.

At the club level, if you have enough racers to support a class, you should offer it. We always had the saying '5 make a class'. With a national class structure, you can offer that plus anything else that is popular in your area.

Spec is the easiest way to get new racers into the sport. People have a hard enough time with computers and televisions, let alone a kart. Also, if you make the rules simple, it helps take away the thought that someone has the 'advantage'. If you narrow it down to just kart and driver by making the engines as similar as possible, it produces better racing and more competition.

Rotax, Stock Moto, Yamaha and LO206 are great examples of that, and the TaG structure SKUSA has assembled puts multiple engines in close proximity. I can't wait for the SKUSA SpringNats as two years ago, the TaG class was a great battle with Rotax, Leopard and Rok TT all there.
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Tony Leone



Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Cole wrote:

At the club level, if you have enough racers to support a class, you should offer it. We always had the saying '5 make a class'. With a national class structure, you can offer that plus anything else that is popular in your area.


Won't this approach just perpetuate the problem we already have? Tons of small fields at the regional level in these "run what ya brung" classes. I think in order for your idea to work they need to stay within the confines of the national class structure at every level, including regional.
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David Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Leone wrote:
David Cole wrote:

At the club level, if you have enough racers to support a class, you should offer it. We always had the saying '5 make a class'. With a national class structure, you can offer that plus anything else that is popular in your area.


Won't this approach just perpetuate the problem we already have? Tons of small fields at the regional level in these "run what ya brung" classes. I think in order for your idea to work they need to stay within the confines of the national class structure at every level, including regional.


I said club level...there's a big difference. Club is a series that remains at one track. The core classes I listed would be offered, and as I feel every track should, invite any other type of karts to come and compete. The idea is of the club is to help build the foundation of the sport. There is no sense in turning away people because they have a engine not listed in a class structure, thus why you have 4-Cycle open, 2-Cycle Open and Unlimited to put them in.

Regional should be a traveling series going to different tracks in a specific area. Such as the SKUSA PKC programs, Route 66 Series, GLSS, etc. Classes here should stick to the core group of classes.
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Adrian Baran



Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thing I'd do is build a track in my backyard that way I can test test and test! Laughing

I do like how you've laid out and organized the classes seems well thought out.
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Chris Livengood



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sport should grow bottom up, not top down. Once the clubs find a way to to work together, to make a few unified classes for the masses, then the organizers at the top will have no choice but get on board.
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David Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Livengood wrote:
The sport should grow bottom up, not top down. Once the clubs find a way to to work together, to make a few unified classes for the masses, then the organizers at the top will have no choice but get on board.


That's the idea. If you have one organization working with all the tracks across the country (at least those willing to work together), they you have a foundation at the club level. Then if a racer in Michigan wants to go to the east coast and race, he knows the tracks that follow the same rules that they have at his local track.
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John Matthews



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,

Here's a crazy idea....

Since eKartingNews.com is about the only place where racers from all around the country come together how about you guys put it out there?

Just take the structure you've laid out and get with the sanctioning bodies you referenced for buy-in then put it together as a package local tracks can choose to follow if they want. Strictly voluntary, but with the 17943 registered users you have there's actually a potential for sparking a grassroots uprising from kart racers that just want to be able to have good local programs and travel a little bit without being forced to deal with completely different rules at tracks near them.

Just call it the EKN Guidelines or something like that and maybe put on one big race at the end of the season where all the different classes you've laid out are run. You don't actually have to put the race on yourselves, just work with one of the established promoters (RIGP comes to mind)....

Honestly I see the structure you've laid out here as a great way for local, regional and national organizations to all get on the same page. It's not based on what can work in any particular region, it's a compilation of classes based on many, many, many discussions we've had on this forum involving people from every possible perspective in the sport.

Of course not every class would be run at every participating track but by adopting the guidelines local tracks would make it clear they want maximum participation by not leaving anyone's equipment out. If one track had a bunch of guys that wanted to run Aixro they could do it while another track might have a group wanting Ltd. Mod Flatheads, nobody gets left out. By having the open class and setting some weight guidelines like Unlimited All-stars does even the oddball stuff experimenters come up with will have a place to run. You might even get some crossover from the dirt oval ranks Idea

We've been having this conversation here for years now and it keeps coming back to the lack of one strong national sanctioning body taking charge of karting in the US. We might as well realize that it's not going to happen so what else can we do? Clearly the Internet is the one thing that connects the largest number of kart racers in the US, let's take advantage of the structure you've built and help move karting to the next place it needs to go
Wink

Cheers,
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David Cole
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John for the comments.

If we can get others to comment and support the idea, then we have a reason to help push this further. However, until the masses can come together like you stated, then it might not be worth the fight. Thus why I think it may not work unless you have the money to back up one national organization to oversee the sport.
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Chris Hutchinson



Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is their any particular reasons, why American Karting could NOT or would not embrace the Commission International De Karting in other words the CIK / FIA. It appears that they have a very well define and structured layout for karting. It's even used in the very successful AMA Supercross series.


http://www.cikfia.com/home.html
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John Matthews



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Cole wrote:
Thanks John for the comments.

If we can get others to comment and support the idea, then we have a reason to help push this further. However, until the masses can come together like you stated, then it might not be worth the fight. Thus why I think it may not work unless you have the money to back up one national organization to oversee the sport.


Hi David,

That's kinda why I suggested you guys publish the spec. Nobody else will, and nobody else has the kind of reach into every organization out there through their members who participate on this forum.

I've been told there have been people with more than a million dollars who've looked at our sport, worked on a plan, then gotten such a negative response that they backed off and went elsewhere.

The only solution will be for the racers to demand a rational way of getting into the sport, or staying in it with a stable rules platform. You have to excuse me having just read my dealer letter from Briggs I'm more motivated than ever to speak out about this. Every week I see another list of questions from somebody new that wants to get into karting. It's the same thing over and over again and I think we both know that if every track out there offered LO206 there would be a good answer for them. They might not follow the advice but at least it would be there for them.

So, talk it over with Rob. See what some of the series promoters you report on think about it. Just don't let the idea die, you know from reading this forum every day that it's what we need. It doesn't take a million dollars to make it happen, just a network of dedicated people and that's something you already have Cool

Cheers,
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John Matthews



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Hutchinson wrote:
Is their any particular reasons, why American Karting could NOT or would not embrace the Commission International De Karting in other words the CIK / FIA. It appears that they have a very well define and structured layout for karting. It's even used in the very successful AMA Supercross series.


http://www.cikfia.com/home.html


$$$$$$$$$$

No seriously though, the CIK has a rational program and it works (with a few variations) in many places around the world.

Our closest neighbor Canada runs under ASN rules.

http://www.asncanada.com/2013_Karting/2013-Karting-Regulations.html

Their program is pretty much just 4 cycle and Rotax for the vast majority of club racers. It's a good system but in the US we have a whole lot of engines that don't conform to their specs. If we insist people go out and buy new equipment we'll loose out on a whole bunch of folks who are happy with their KT100, or Stock Moto, or whatever. We also loose out on the people who buy a used kart and want to try things out before investing in all new gear.

David's approach makes sense because it leaves the biggest, most successful engine programs alone and makes room for everything else to compete at a club level.

Karting started in the US and our mindset doesn't lend itself to being controlled by a bunch of people a long way from where we live. If it did then the WKA or IKF would have already consolidated kart racing and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I just don't see the CIK stepping up with any program that would be accepted in the US as a whole. They have far more than a million dollars, so do their member companies, it shows with the KF engine program. Most of us just can't compete in that world....

Cheers,
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