Spindle lessons

kyle luttrell · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:24 am Post subject:

Hey,

I don't claim to know it all I pay engineers to know... But the fact is
If we where not talking about 5/8" to 3/4" you can make a tube stronger by making the axle hollow but this isn't possible on these because you still need around .25" wall depending on the material and and the size of the material..

If we are talking 1.25" axle yes this could be done because you can have .25 walls easily..

But when you are talking spindles it's not going to happen.

As for material 8620 has alot of carbon in it and general made strong by heat treating I'd be willing to be margay isn't heat treating its not cost effective.

You are right I'm not telling anyone my material I have to much time and money doing research to find out what worked best.

About margay building an oval chassis good for them I hope they sell 1000 but that's a tough market I don't see them coming up with anything better then what the oval chassis manufactures on the market have already maybe I'm wrong..... Idk maybe the best thing since sliced bread... Lol get it on the track.

What I do know is the Ionic Edge is on the top of the list as for quality and has been competitive in every race and is very tunable.
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joseph hollinger · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:04 am Post subject:

bob,

I'm not sure how your question is relevant. For structures like steel tubes, or steel rods, there are fairly simple equations that will tell you how much they bend in relation to how much force is applied. Those equations aren't controversial or even debatable. They've been around for hundreds of years without change dating back to something like 1750. Anyone can look this stuff up on wikipedia or hundreds of other web sources. You don't have to be an educated engineer.
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mike clements · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:05 am Post subject:

"What I do know is that the Iconic Edge is at the top of the list, yada, yada, yada, ..."

Looks like you found that need to brag that you scolded me for. Very Happy

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Greg Dingess · Advertiser Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 10

Britt Robinson · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:58 am Post subject:

kyle luttrell · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:12 am Post subject:

Greg Dingess · Advertiser Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 10

kyle luttrell · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:41 pm Post subject:

[quote="Greg Dingess"]

Jamie Webb · Joined: 30 Aug 2001 Posts: 584

Kyle,
I don't think you have seen the new Margay spindles (or sweet front end setup). Check out the pics on Facebook. I am very impressed.
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mike clements · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject:

The new Margay oval kart is awesome for certain. Much innovation in this product.

By the way, I just confirmed my earlier posts with two other structural engineers. Drilling a hole down the center of a bar or beam does indeed increase it's strength. The trick is you have to know what % can be removed.

I can cite cases where this worked very well and a few cases where too large of a hole was drilled and the part became weaker.

It simply is what it is. Very Happy

Congrats to Margay on the new design.
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joseph hollinger · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject:

Andy Seesemann · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject:

You can tell that its winter in most of the US (although Joe and Mike live in relatively warm climates), because there is a preponderance of multi-page threads.

I'm going to take a crack at this one, at least once.

I think that the terms that you guys are using are too generic and that there is confusion when talking about strength. This argument is bringing me back 20 years, when I was a Junior taking an elective Materials Science class.

The two terms that Metallurgists use are hardness and toughness. You can see them defined somewhat below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughness

The Cliff's Notes version is that "Hardness is a measure of how resistant solid matter is to various kinds of permanent shape change when a force is applied."

And "toughness is the ability of a material to absorb energy and plastically deform without fracturing".

So, a hollow axle can have a greater degree of "toughness" than a solid one, as it will take more energy to actually fracture it, although it will have a less "hardness" since it will permanently deform before a solid one will. Mike's "hole in the middle" is what makes this possible.

Wow. I can't believe that I somewhat remember all of that. I drank a lot of beer in college....

Flame away.

A
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joseph hollinger · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject:

Thanks for trying to find some middle ground, but the terms that Mike has been using are stiffness and flexibility. Both of those specifically refer to a material before it reaches the point of plastic deformation.
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A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. -- Winston Churchill.

mike clements · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject:

Andy, That you for understanding and trying to explain it.
For me personally, one of my favorite expressions is: "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you".
You managed to do both.
When we take a statement used on a Karting website and apply them to karting, it should be clear as to the meaning. However, sometimes we run into "rocket scientists" who just enjoy stirring the pot.
Happy Motoring,
MC
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Keith Freber · Joined: 27 Jul 2001 Posts: 88

[quote="kyle luttrell"][quote="Greg Dingess"]