50 or 40mm axel???

marc walsh · Joined: 11 May 2011 Posts: 130

Guys Ive got a chance to pick up on a complete bolt up 50 mm axle assy for a good price however not sure it will even make a difference from my 40 mm on my Haase Skorpion. Opinions?

Oscar Aguilera · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1614

ok ill give a shot to see if i can help you.

first it depends on what class and what tire you are running. the advantage of the 50mm is that it allows you to run a softer axle than with the 40mm. and if the class you run with the tires is calling for a soft set up....usually the softer 40mm stuff bends too easily.

so if you in your tuning wisdom believe you need a softer axle and you are down the bottom of the soft axles in you 40mm set,,,,then yes the 50mm will give you that extra looseness you are needing if you are still bound up with the soft 40mm stuff.

so if you are running a medium to hard set up with your 40mm and dont plan to go to another class or stickier tire......the 50mm will probably do nothing for you....other than resale value? if it is that good of a deal

hope this helps

just my opinion

Len Cockman · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: 40 vs. 50 mm. axle

At the Daytona ManCup I did a grid walk before both Supercan finals. We were one of 3 teams in a field of 22 that had a 40mm. axle. At the Pittsburgh International race we had a 50 just like most everyone else. Gotta do what the fast guys are doing.
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TJ Koyen · Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 1415

50mm always felt more stable to me compared to the 40, and seems to give you a little bit greater adjustability. Easier to sell too. However, it's expensive to swap out all the rear end parts for 50mm stuff. But if you can get it cheap, might as well.
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Bill Schmidt · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject:

So, if bigger is better, then how soon till the Europeans start making 60mm axles for us to use?
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joseph hollinger · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:53 pm Post subject:

Dan Schultz · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject:

joseph hollinger · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject:

Dan Schultz · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:00 am Post subject:

You think it's not possible for a 40 mm to be stiffer than a 50? Within the thicknesses used for karts, it might be true, but to make a blanket statement that any 50 is stiffer than a 40 is ridiculous. Try making a 50 the thickness of an aluminum can compared to a solid 40 mm and let me know what has higher stiffness.

Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:43 am Post subject:

joseph hollinger · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject:

Oscar Aguilera · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 1614

its a love hate relationship i have with engineers? i almost became one and i believe that this trait helps me to analyze things better sometimes....but sometimes you just have to cough up the cash and do it yourself?

so when they say it takes money to win....and how fast do you want to go? this is where that applies.

after all the debate on here on whatever subject....you can only be sure by trying it,,,,taking good notes....analyze the conditions and take note of that as well....get a good record of your lap times. note the difference of when your lap times went faster or slower.....go make changes and do the above again....

then take all that you have for data...extra parts....tuning parts....and go to a new track and see if you learned anything.

how will you know? check out your stop watch...and if you have the $$$ for a mychron....you can use that too.

i dont care to debate the properties of the metal or why a crg/birel axle costs so much..

but In my experience. when i ran a 40mm and we ran relatively hard tires by most standards....i had to use the crg 40mm met. it was the correct axle that netted me the best lap times.....BUT! it was like butter. if i tapped a curb, it would bend on impact. if i got over another kart and landed hard on it....it was bent for sure. we all know this happens no matter how good a driver you are.

when the 50mm stuff came out...the crg t4 2mm was rated with the same stiffness as the MET 40.

guess what? it was more durable! when i hit a curb it didnt bend! and when the met 40 was not soft enough for what i needed....i could not even imagine going to the next softer for my weight. they did exist but only the jrs could use them.

where in the 50mm set up....there are 4 axles softer that i have used with confidence. the S20 is an axle i use on occasion and it is pretty durable. but i do have to be careful...i have bent one before.

the other side is...with the 40mm stuff...for my weight...i have seen them give way and bend/break at the key way when they have a cut for 100cc keyway and a shifter key way. they will wear out and just snap one day when they get too old.

seen it happen...had it happen.

i never had that happen with the range of axles i use in the 50mm stuff.

i know kart companies do things to say they are "new" when most of the changes they make have been done before to the chassis. they go back to what has worked in the past with an angle on one bar or the thickness of the other.....but none of the chassis manuf have gone back to 40mm. they made them for a reason....and if what they do doesnt work or can be done differently....they will go back to that the following homologation and call it the "new" chassis.

if you have been around long enough....that is what has happened from my view point.

so let me guess....anyone on here talking about the 40 being so good....either is selling one? uses it in the junior classes and hasnt see the benefit for the sr classes....or is on a 50 and isnt fast enough to know the difference? or is on the 50 and never had a 40? or has gone the same lap times on a 40 and a 50...like i did...and hasnt needed to use the next softer 40?

let me know if i am missing a category?

im not dogging the 40 but there is a place and time for that axle set up. i give my honest opinion and try to help on here. i dont think anyone on here is the end all be all to what to do on chassis set ups...and the ones that i know are...dont give there advice on here for free because they make a living at it. sometimes you do have to see that all the front runners are using X items...parts...chassis...but that is all you can see. you cant see front end set ups as easily,,,axle grades...seat positions...tire pressure....or jetting. when you go to a BIG race...it is kinda cool to see 10 different chassis in the top ten spots...they are all well tuned and up front with tenths of a second or less separating them.

sometimes the debate on here is fun? or sometimes it can get hostile? i had some fun with the gearing debate....but that hasnt cost anyone anything....

when some of these debates cost $$$$...i tend to joke around a little less and give you my experience.

when in doubt? go test.

and signing out "just my opinion" is my way of saying...this is what i have done....go figure it out for yourself....use what i put on here if you want.

is "adios" more appropriate?

Mike Burris · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:47 am Post subject:

Joe, I agree with you about the gimmick aspect. The sad part is the Italian chassis manufacturers (aka CIK) have been gaming the system for years and driven up chassis prices to stupid levels. Even if they have a diameter limit now the constant changes over the years has added to the cost and kept a lot of people the sport was intended for away. Now they are playing the game with front spindles and $1,000 a set wheels! Our sanctioning bodies should have never allowed this to happen but the "we should be like the rest of the world" lobby and importers won out. Sad

joseph hollinger · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:04 am Post subject:

I agree with all of that.
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Chris Livengood · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:48 am Post subject:

My favorite debate is the wheel debate.

I wonder what the profit margin is on a set of OTK wheels? It so large that you have to have those wheels to win.
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