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Christian Hubbell
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 236
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| What does Colin weigh in at? |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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He's a Lefty sized guy... I'm thinking 140 or so, but I'll check to be sure.
BTW, water out of the weep hole should not mean a problem in the block. Most likely one of the two seals in the water pump. There is one each for oil and water, I have seen the water one go before. |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Sheidler wrote: | | There is one each for oil and water, I have seen the water one go before. |
But make sure you have BOTH seals before you open the motor... You can access the water pump pretty easily without cracking the cases.
Definitely not something you want to try fixing at an event  , a little leaking will not hurt, just top it off. |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Chris M wrote: | | Alan Sheidler wrote: | | There is one each for oil and water, I have seen the water one go before. |
But make sure you have BOTH seals before you open the motor... You can access the water pump pretty easily without cracking the cases.
Definitely not something you want to try fixing at an event , a little leaking will not hurt, just top it off. |
No big deal. As long as oil seal is good, the water can't get into the oil. Easy enough to keep the water in temporarily by filling the weep hole with a little epoxy, until a proper job can be done of it. Of course, problems with the water system are generally due to corrosion. That starts from using tap water instead of distilled or mineral-free water in the engine/radiator, and not using a dispersant like Water Wetter. We've run our karts for over a decade and have never had any rust or corrosion form. On another kart, I saw it wreck the water seal, looking bad inside the pump, and grooving the pump shaft. A long-use dirt bike motor we got for parts was cleaner in all the water areas than that one was. |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Sheidler wrote: | | Chris M wrote: | | Alan Sheidler wrote: | | There is one each for oil and water, I have seen the water one go before. |
But make sure you have BOTH seals before you open the motor... You can access the water pump pretty easily without cracking the cases.
Definitely not something you want to try fixing at an event , a little leaking will not hurt, just top it off. |
No big deal. As long as oil seal is good, the water can't get into the oil. Easy enough to keep the water in temporarily by filling the weep hole with a little epoxy, until a proper job can be done of it. Of course, problems with the water system are generally due to corrosion. That starts from using tap water instead of distilled or mineral-free water in the engine/radiator, and not using a dispersant like Water Wetter. We've run our karts for over a decade and have never had any rust or corrosion form. On another kart, I saw it wreck the water seal, looking bad inside the pump, and grooving the pump shaft. A long-use dirt bike motor we got for parts was cleaner in all the water areas than that one was. |
These things come off ebay, its hard to say where they've been. |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris M wrote: |
These things come off ebay, its hard to say where they've been. |
You mean the parts motor? Not eBay. JT's FSAE teammate had the '98 CR125 that is now a major part of the engine we run. Clean in the water side, after being a farm bike. Mike N. also has a YZ250. I'd expect a clean water system in that too. Thanks for your (irrelevant) comments... |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Alan Sheidler"] | Chris M wrote: |
Thanks for your (irrelevant) comments... |
My original motor came off ebay. I know you've seen the insides of THAT water pump. Why dont you tell everyone what it looked like inside? |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Chris M"] | Alan Sheidler wrote: | | Chris M wrote: |
Thanks for your (irrelevant) comments... |
My original motor came off ebay. I know you've seen the insides of THAT water pump. Why dont you tell everyone what it looked like inside? |
Of course, it looked like crap, which is why it was no surprise that it was leaking...
I was under the impression that your "motor builder" had gone through it before I saw it, but maybe not. His phone advice was quite off-base regarding whether the motor could be run with a bad water seal. Your sly comment about making sure Christian had both seals before taking the pump apart was an obvious reference to what you and I both know, that although I thought I had them, the water seal was not part of my stash. Still, the fix I did was workable at the event, a DC Pro, and you were able to run the motor with NO problems for the event. This is all ancient history. Need we really go on? Sheesh!  |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Alan Sheidler"] | Chris M wrote: | | Alan Sheidler wrote: | | Chris M wrote: |
Thanks for your (irrelevant) comments... |
My original motor came off ebay. I know you've seen the insides of THAT water pump. Why dont you tell everyone what it looked like inside? |
Of course, it looked like crap, which is why it was no surprise that it was leaking...
I was under the impression that your "motor builder" had gone through it before I saw it, but maybe not. His phone advice was quite off-base regarding whether the motor could be run with a bad water seal. Your sly comment about making sure Christian had both seals before taking the pump apart was an obvious reference to what you and I both know, that although I thought I had them, the water seal was not part of my stash. Still, the fix I did was workable at the event, a DC Pro, and you were able to run the motor with NO problems for the event. This is all ancient history. Need we really go on? Sheesh! |
Alan,
Rather than trash my builder, I think you should own up to what happened.
Before starting the repair, I asked you if you were SURE you had the parts, which you said you were. It was a very slow leak that I could have addressed by topping it off. .
After opening it up, it turned out you were short the water seal, which left me with an open motor, without seals (they are destroyed when removed) and about 4 hours to fix it before the afternoon heat, when I should have been enjoying myself and walking the course.
Firouz was the one who suggested plugging the water hole with JB weld and making due with the single seal to get me through the event. I am surprised you would sign your name to that idea.
People make mistakes, but the shocking thing was that you didn't apologize for screwing me over. You disappeared when it was discovered you didnt have the part. You later had the gal to demand that I mail you a replacement for the $4 water seal, even though I had to open the motor a second time to fix it properly. Maybe I should have charged you my hourly rate for the ordeal?
Just really low quality stuff Alan. |
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Larry MacLeod
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 299
Location: United States, Michigan, Ypsilanti
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well this conversation has taken a nasty turn....
Can you two take it off line?
Thanks!
_________________
F125 #196
Old Birel/ hodgepodge Honda CR125
Lefty Funk
Detroit Region |
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Christian Hubbell
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 236
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Splitting the cases would be for the crank and bearings which are going on a few seasons now, been co-driving a lot though so its probably okay. But I do have a stripped water pump bolt which will need a helicoil and is the source of the leak and the case splitting action.
Btw, Alan has never been anything but helpful to myself and literally every other karter at every event I have been to. Good dude all around. |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry MacLeod wrote: | Well this conversation has taken a nasty turn....
Can you two take it off line?
Thanks! |
Sure Lefty...
But first, the revisionist history has to be addressed. I did not start this personal attack, but I will defend myself.
Who the hell came to me asking for my help? And NO, your engine guy was not who suggested the temp fix, he was against running the motor that way at all. He insisted that the oil seal would not keep the water out of the gearbox. Even when he aquiesced, he suggested running a low coolant level to keep down the pressure. Geez. //NOTE: I would never personally identify anyone who was a peripheral party to this mess, even if I disagreed with his opinions. Why you brought a name into it, only YOU know. I used a generic term. You used a name. To show how suspect your memory is... The work on your engine took place Friday afternoon, after practice starts. After the Saturday morning runs, I had to deal with sizing and fitting a replacement for the broken shift rod on my own kart, including going to SEARS and buying a set of taps, since I had left mine at home. I certainly did not have time then to mess with yours, which had been running fine all morning, and for the rest of the weekend too. I barely got mine ready to go before time to run Saturday afternoon.
We knew we were short a seal (I had two that were the same, instead of one of each size) as soon as the pump was opened. BTW, don't talk about topping off and taking it easy, you had told me you were not going to risk running with the leak. No one was offering you a ride. You would not fit in my kart, and insisted that yours was faster anyway.
As far as my demanding that you mail the seal... Actually it was a small list of parts, all of which you supposedly had for me in Toledo. But since you failed to give them to me there and bolted without doing so, I asked about them via PM. It was you who suggested mail, and I agreed. Not out of line at all. When I borrow something, I go looking for the lender and make sure to recompense. Not your thing, apparently.
I have no idea why you brought this whole thing up. I spent a lot of time making sure that you could run your kart at the event, and run you did, with no problems at all. How is that screwing you over? I had issues of my own to deal with. People warned me not to get involved, but I did anyway, in a spirit of camaradarie for a driver in my class. My mistake. I did apologize for not having both seals, and made it so that you could run anyway. Someone reading your post would get the idea that I pulled the pump off and left you to deal with a disassembled motor. How far from the truth can you get? I did it all, from start to finish. My parts. My JB Weld. My time. Even my distilled water and Water Wetter. The motor did not leak or overheat. How in the hell could you have been pissed about that?
That you had to open it up a second time was of course necessary, and I left an indentation in the epoxy for a drill bit. At the event, you told me it was time for a rebuild anyway and you intended to send it off for a redo. Since the pump shaft was scarred, that also needed to be replaced, but you chose to stay with the old one even though I had a new one to use. I polished yours by hand to improve the seal surface. Mine did have the nylon gear, whereas yours had the metal one, which was the foundation for your decision not to do the swap.
Chris. You no longer have a dog in this fight. You no longer run a shifter kart with the SCCA. Whether you own a kart and run elsewhere I do not know. Why you jumped in and attacked me now after something that was done out of charity three years ago I have NO IDEA, other than it might give you some thrill or satisfaction. This is the FIRST I have heard that you were mad at me instead of appreciative of my efforts, parts, and time on your behalf.
For the benefit of everyone who reads this forum I will not respond to any further comments you make. I know what the truth is, and I am very comfortable with how I treat people in any class at any venue I attend. This is the first time that giving assistance with a kart at a Solo has come back to bite me, but it will not change how I deal with my competitors. From my perspective, I expect all drivers to have good shot at besting my kart, and have never stopped to worry about how many times I helped with tools, parts, or advice. Until now, I have never regretted helping someone even if he put the beat down on me in competition. My trailer, supplies, and knowledge base are open to all in KM. But there will be one exception to that rule. |
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Christian Hubbell
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 236
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Cool, tore into it. Can fix without splitting. Thought the bolts went all the way through to the other case half but maybe that was the TM. On a positive note, everything else looks perfect, almost brand new. Gaskets, seals and a rethread and I'll be back in business, will save the split for later. |
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Chris M Johnson
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Sheidler wrote: | | Larry MacLeod wrote: | Well this conversation has taken a nasty turn....
Can you two take it off line?
Thanks! |
Sure Lefty...
But first, the revisionist history has to be addressed. I did not start this personal attack, but I will defend myself.
Who the hell came to me asking for my help? And NO, your engine guy was not who suggested the temp fix, he was against running the motor that way at all. He insisted that the oil seal would not keep the water out of the gearbox. Even when he aquiesced, he suggested running a low coolant level to keep down the pressure. Geez. //NOTE: I would never personally identify anyone who was a peripheral party to this mess, even if I disagreed with his opinions. Why you brought a name into it, only YOU know. I used a generic term. You used a name. To show how suspect your memory is... The work on your engine took place Friday afternoon, after practice starts. After the Saturday morning runs, I had to deal with sizing and fitting a replacement for the broken shift rod on my own kart, including going to SEARS and buying a set of taps, since I had left mine at home. I certainly did not have time then to mess with yours, which had been running fine all morning, and for the rest of the weekend too. I barely got mine ready to go before time to run Saturday afternoon.
We knew we were short a seal (I had two that were the same, instead of one of each size) as soon as the pump was opened. BTW, don't talk about topping off and taking it easy, you had told me you were not going to risk running with the leak. No one was offering you a ride. You would not fit in my kart, and insisted that yours was faster anyway.
As far as my demanding that you mail the seal... Actually it was a small list of parts, all of which you supposedly had for me in Toledo. But since you failed to give them to me there and bolted without doing so, I asked about them via PM. It was you who suggested mail, and I agreed. Not out of line at all. When I borrow something, I go looking for the lender and make sure to recompense. Not your thing, apparently.
I have no idea why you brought this whole thing up. I spent a lot of time making sure that you could run your kart at the event, and run you did, with no problems at all. How is that screwing you over? I had issues of my own to deal with. People warned me not to get involved, but I did anyway, in a spirit of camaradarie for a driver in my class. My mistake. I did apologize for not having both seals, and made it so that you could run anyway. Someone reading your post would get the idea that I pulled the pump off and left you to deal with a disassembled motor. How far from the truth can you get? I did it all, from start to finish. My parts. My JB Weld. My time. Even my distilled water and Water Wetter. The motor did not leak or overheat. How in the hell could you have been pissed about that?
That you had to open it up a second time was of course necessary, and I left an indentation in the epoxy for a drill bit. At the event, you told me it was time for a rebuild anyway and you intended to send it off for a redo. Since the pump shaft was scarred, that also needed to be replaced, but you chose to stay with the old one even though I had a new one to use. I polished yours by hand to improve the seal surface. Mine did have the nylon gear, whereas yours had the metal one, which was the foundation for your decision not to do the swap.
Chris. You no longer have a dog in this fight. You no longer run a shifter kart with the SCCA. Whether you own a kart and run elsewhere I do not know. Why you jumped in and attacked me now after something that was done out of charity three years ago I have NO IDEA, other than it might give you some thrill or satisfaction. This is the FIRST I have heard that you were mad at me instead of appreciative of my efforts, parts, and time on your behalf.
For the benefit of everyone who reads this forum I will not respond to any further comments you make. I know what the truth is, and I am very comfortable with how I treat people in any class at any venue I attend. This is the first time that giving assistance with a kart at a Solo has come back to bite me, but it will not change how I deal with my competitors. From my perspective, I expect all drivers to have good shot at besting my kart, and have never stopped to worry about how many times I helped with tools, parts, or advice. Until now, I have never regretted helping someone even if he put the beat down on me in competition. My trailer, supplies, and knowledge base are open to all in KM. But there will be one exception to that rule. |
Alan,
Your attacks feel like carryover from the harassment I received from the KAC two years ago. It is not acceptable behavior for members of the SCCA, yet alone the rules comittee to bully and defame other members of the class who disagree with them. Your objective appears to be use social agression to eject me from the class.
http://s1104.photobucket.com/albums/h321/cmahood69/?action=view¤t=Screenshot-1.png
Firouz is a respected builder who has been building motors since long before F125 was a class. His phone support was what enabled me to fix the problem you created and get through the event. The JBWeld on the water hole was his idea. Your other claims are so far skewed that I will not address them.
I suppose its alright for you to remember things differently, but to tell me I have no right to post here because I'm "no longer a member of the class" is unacceptable. This is just more harassment. |
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Jason Vehige
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: United States, Tennessee, Nashville
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: |
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I borrowed a tie wrap from Alan once.... Against the advice of my motor builder..... 
40 + at nationals this year right !!!! 
_________________
Jason Vehige
08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204 |
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