New CIK 4 cycle spec?

[Jeff Edwards]

What can anyone tell me about the new 4 cycle spec to be used in the international competition? Are these motors already out there?

Thanks,

Jeff Edwards

[Greg Keresi]

Jeff take a look here

World Formula
and
CIK Press Release <.pdf>

[Roger Ruthhart]

I believe it's called Formula World and I don't think they're out there yet. Check the CIK web site (sorry, not sure of the address), there was some discussion at the Oct. 1 CIK meeting... think I recall 2 manufacturers intested in producing the motors, but I don't think any are yet ... at least that was the impression I got. Haven't heard of anyone stateside running that class except the planned CIK N. American 3-race series in Canada, U.S. and Mexico. Sorry I can't help more.

[John Gilbert]

This is to be entry level with a spec chasssis that any manufacturer can build, I believe. The cost of complete package is to ber under 4000
John

[Jeff Edwards]

Thanks, guys! You've given me some reading material.

Too bad, they had to go for such a limited engine - only 15 hp. I understand and agree that this will place emphasis on driving and setup, but darn that's low.

Maybe they'll do another spec and this will be the 'entry level'.

Jeff

[Jack Burroughs]

If they can get this to work and interest the dirt trackin folks from the East your gonna see something you won't believe.

[Jeff Edwards]

Interesting point, Jack!

I was focused on the alternative future of two-stroke racing, and here is a possible fusion of interests!

It sure would press forward development with a larger market.

If you really let your imagination fly: Could we end up with Italian Kart factory drivers competing with Good Ol' Boys for championships?!

Jeff

[Jack Burroughs]

I'll bet on the "good ole boys" every time, just look where they've taken 4-cycle Briggs motor development in 10 years without any national help. Lots of small tracks, outlaw and others that slip under the count of IKF, WKA, et.al. WE only show up in the cash registers of the many Kart shops,engine builders and mail order supliers. IMHO we are a very "silent" majority.(LOL).

[Rodney Ebersole]

I am not sure which market is larger? I would bet the good ol boys dirt racen market is larger in numbers maybe not in dollars. I understand that CIK will be running a class with the SA250 Biland motor. Anyone on here have one of these in the US yet?

[Jeff Edwards]

Rodney,

The Biland looked quite interesting to me, so I wrote them. They promptly responded with some info and that the American importer is Margay. They copied Margay on the email.

I wrote Margay and asked some questions about availability, pricing and intentions on competition classes. TWICE. No answer.

That makes three emails and no response. I'm guessing that they aren't really doing anything with it. He could at least write to say that they are testing and don't have anything to tell us yet, but no. I'm disappointed. I expected more.

I have been racing my Rotax Max and been VERY PLEASED with it. I think it is what kart racing needs now. Actually, it was needed a few years ago, but I'll take now.

Here I am, someone whom sees the 4cycle as the direction we'll all have to go in a few years, with funding to set up my experimental kart for next season (in addition to my Rotax Max sprinter). I have already approached IKF about provisions for motors like the Biland. I have a record of succeeding in getting a new class off the ground and I can't interest them. Bummer.

So, I'm now working on setting up a Rotax Max LAYDOWN kart for the upcoming Road Race season.

Let me know, if you find out anything of substance.

A disappointed,
Jeff Edwards
email: kart_racer@hotmail.com

[Chad Stapleton]

Jeff,
Local (Ozzie) press has shown photos of Birrel karts with Briggs motors supposedly as test rigs for the "Formula Mondial" - but the motors look very like the Intek / Animal.
Maybe thats not unrealistic, as the spec for this formula is 200cc, 15hp, sub $1000 for the motor, and from threads on the 4-cycle forum, that is a done deal with the Intek tuners.
Other manufacturers have yet to show their cards, but i would expect Honda & possibly Yamaha to figure into the picture.
Incidentally, my understanding of this class is not to be a "premier" level of racing, but rather to encourage and facilitate less developed karting nations (markets!) like China, Asia, etc to establish a "basic" formula series at sensible costs, yet still meet at an international level when practical.
This new market is the attraction to Briggs & Honda etc.
On the Biland, have you seen the thread i started back in September, where the rumour of the USA importing 1500 Bilands drew a quick response from Keith Freber of Margay who acknowledged their link to Biland and welcomed personal emails from any interested parties. Have you tried him personally ?
Further, in the UK they have a (the only ?) purpose designed, kart 4-stroke, the TKM, which looks a very neat package - 200cc, 20+ hp, OH cam, water cooled, RH drive output, etc etc, and at about half the cost of a Biland.

[Bob Vehring]

I can't add anything new to the W F info now, but I can offer some insight in to the Animals and Intek motors.We've been using them for over 2 years now, totally different than the flatheads, much wider power band. I think that when some people look at Briggs, especialy those without much expiriance with them, tend to see 4 cy. as costly high maintainance motors, to a certain degree this is true, but keep in mind this is not the result of the design of the motor but rather the extendt that the rules have allowed the cam designers to go to. In stock class, slapper cams are the only way your going to win anymore but the price is cost and reliability. So back to OHV, so far in the two classes we have rules for, St. Animal and F200, rules keep in line our cams, and the motors are wery reliable. As far as power, Animals stock on alky make about 10 hp, F200 on gas about 12, we've also spent alot of time with opens, one of the simplest is using a 1" bore carb, a 308 cam and some porting, everything else is stock and no machining has been done, result and honest 17 hp, cost about $600 if you can port and assemble it your self, and it will live a long time, not a bad deal. I too am impressed by some of the new 4cy motors from overseas, but coming from a lifetime of car racing what I liked about karts was just about anyone could be a player, in cars many times you would see really talented drivers or tuners left out because they couldn,t aford the good parts, I hope that doesn't come to karting. Bob

[Tim Doll]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JACK BURROUGHS:
Lots of small tracks, outlaw and others that slip under the count of IKF, WKA, et.al. WE only show up in the cash registers of the many Kart shops,engine builders and mail order supliers. IMHO we are a very "silent" majority.(LOL).

---

Jack, not totally under the radar... My background is 2 cycle roadrace, with the occasional run in sprint. But one of the first things I learned when I was first elected to the IKF Board was that the "typical" karter in the US ran a Briggs on dirt, ran pretty much every week (weather permitting), and didn't belong to a national organization. There is SERIOUS money involved.

Trust me, if the IKF could figure out how to get all those 4 cycle Briggs karters to join, they would do it in a minute.

Tim

[Prowrench22]

4cycle.com this place stinks I'm leaving

[Rodney Ebersole]

It's starting to smell better around here all ready.