CUT THE BS, RULES ARE NOT THAT HARD

[Stephen Buckley]

J.R.,
I remember the meeting (as I desribed on another thread to Deborah) in Ontario... we got a lot done there in our little room. I just wish that the Aprilia 122 had taken off better!

In addition, as you have stated several times, the IKF BOD needs to butt out of the class rulemaking and let the committees do their job. If I remember correctly, only a few of the BOD even race. They should be concerned with the health, financial, and general welfare of the IKF and karting as a whole.

Anyway, my concern at the moment is IC/E and F/E. Question: Are we starting a new class (F/E), replacing Unlimited FKE III with F/E, or combining the two?

As far as IC/E, I also believe that bodywork should remain open as to allow some innovation. Wouldn't it be fairly simple to restrict the class to engine type, carb size, ignition and weight?

I think other issues for roadracing should be dealt with such as radio communication. This has been discussed over and over and there wasn't one valid reason not to allow them.

After I come back off vacation, I plan to help do whatever I can to advance these issues at the Fall meeting.

[Russ Schaeffer]

Steven's posting illustrated an interesting point about rule making. Everybody has an idea on how to make things better, I've got a million of 'em myself. That's why it is so
important to frame the intent of the class carefully and completely so that when you are deciding on a detail for that class you have some guidance. And the same thing applies to
the IKF, without a framework or guiding principle you have no basis to make the large policy changes and it all ends up in a big mess. That's where we are now. The BOD needs to define what they want to do with karting and provide a frame work to guide the organization. If as an example the goal of karting is to provide low cost racing for everyone,then radios would not be allowed. But if the goal is to advance karting to a more professional level then radios would be mandatory. You see what I've been saying? All of us from the club level on up need to determine what kind of show we are going to run, and the IKF needs to provide the basic framework.
Thanx to All.
Russ Schaeffer

[John Clasen]

To Steve and Russ and all. The days of waiting for the WKA and IKF to take the bull by the horns are long past. They have shown time and again that they are all about the statis quo. They are not about pushing the envelope or blazing trails. That is why it is essential for the racers to be involved in the process! They have the most to win or lose. We are at a major crossroads in kart racing and in particular Shifter Karts, 125cc, 250 IC/E & 250 F/E. There is tremendous excitment about this segment of karting and it is incumbant upon us to show the way. I am very encouraged by the number of related posts on this site and the personal emails I am receiving on this subject. Out of almost every one of them there is something that can be used to put this puzzle together. Like the previous question about radios: in the context of sprint shifter racing almost everyone agrees it is a bad idea, however in the Road Race world the idea has alot of merit. Keep those cards and letters coming, talk to you all soon!
Cheers, J.R.

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: John R. Clasen ]

[Debbie Kuntze]

Just what RR racers need, another cost! It isn't enough that our tracks are extremely high priced so our entry fees are higher (but we do get lots of track time for the $$) If one front runner has a radio so his team can keep him up on the whereabouts of the competition, the rest up there will have to have one also. I can see blocking like crazy! This could be a director's nightmare. It would have been disastorous for the Yamaha Hvy & Lt up in Portland, there was some CLOSE racing! Pitboards give the same info, and all can see it (although I rarely pay any attention to someone else' board) the driver just can't talk back except with hand signals. (Problem is, I seem to be the only one who understands John's and Scott's and lord knows if they know what I am talking about!)

[deborah d-harpur]

Ok JR...not only are you my secret boyfriend, but you may be my husband's best friend in karting now!!!

He has been trying to get radios in RR for about 5 years. Poor guy even has me on the other side of the fence on that issue. I will tell him he has a friend in radios with JR.

[John Clasen]

Debbie, radios can certainly be a two edged sword. I really don't seen an issue of using comminucations between the crew and driver for devensive positioning because I just don't think it will happen. Remember, you only get one line change going down a straight a way. If you zig or zag more than that it is blocking and will get you a DQ.

The positive issues are many. Everytime I am at a R/R venue I see a (shifter) kart go by that has something about to go bang. Cooling system leak for example. If a crew was able to warn a driver via radio before it was too late, they could save the engine. The cost of most meltdowns is equal to what a radio system costs. Drivers can also use the radio to call in important safety information. In addition, speaking of precious track time during practice) if you have radios, you can instruct your driver to come in next time by as opposed to waiting to tell them to come in next lap. The saved lap can give you enough time to make a change and get back on track during the same session as opposed to having to wait until your group goes out again. With the technical level that the shifter karts (125 & 250) are at today, efficient communication is essential.

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: John R. Clasen ]

[Erik Frank]

Based on the last two posts, then the simple solution is to allow the use of radios in practice only....to assist in setup.

This is probably legal now, since there is no tech during practice.

If you're allowed to use radios in race, what's next? Window nets?

You also get into some serious frequency logistics when you have 200+ karts (and potentially 200+ radios) at a given track.

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: Erik Frank ]

[John Clasen]

Folks, just so we don't lose track here, this whole thread is about busting out of a rut, moving on into the next level. It is not about maintining the statis quo. Remember, new rules, new direction, fresh air, etc. If what the IKF and others have been offering for the past 10 years is so great, why is kart count down everywhere in two cycle racing except SKUSA? Let's leave the proposal system and all the other old ways behind. It can be a new day.
J.R.

[scott berkheiser]

The WKA has allowed radios in all of the Road Race classes for the past couple years. There have been no frequency allocation problems that I've seen. I'd say less than 25% of the racers use radios. What's the big deal about using radios in Road Racing?

Scott

[Russ Schaeffer]

J.R.
That's exactly it. The customers are telling the IKF that the old way of doing things isn't working. It is time to review what we are trying to do and where we are heading and make some changes that serve the racers better. This new direction will be fully outlined and rule making will be guided by that outline. If the IKF can adapt, that's great. If not, it's time to change. And just a quick note to the entrenched IKF supporters. I would really like to see the IKF provide a workable framework, but right now the conditions are showing that they may not have the leadership they need to move in a new direction.
Thanx to all
Russ Schaeffer

[Deborah Davidson-Harpur]

If you want to be out of the "rut" then you need to step up and help with the process.

Wasn't it fairly recent that there were mulitiple posts complaining about SKUSA? I know I saw them, prior to that it was the posts on the IKF, and on WKA. IKF has been through over 45 years of this, and somehow it always survives. You see, it doesnt matter which group you are with, sometime or another, there WILL be work that needs to be done.

It is very easy for all of us to say what shoulda, coulda, woulda been done, but I don't see too many people stepping up to actually do any of the work involved. I think only 1 of the people who posted on this subject actually sent in a letter with their opinion, and that's an easy thing to do (thanks Deb Kuntze)What happens when it's time to do something harder?

Complain, Complain, Complain,away because when it gets down to it,and some members might actually have to take a bit of time and work, its all just what is suggested in the title of this forum. BS.

my personal opinion of course!

[ August 14, 2001: Message edited by: Deborah Davidson-Harpur ]

[Russ Warr]

J.R.,

New rule..... Radios allowed in souther cal area only if tuned in to 95.5 KLOS....

Just remember radios are cheaper than a PIE or a drak system. Some of the tracks we run on are so big you cannot see all of the track from the pitts!!!! Radios are a good thing. Whats next are we going to stop people from using carbon body work or you can't use a titanium axel it costs to much. Hi tech stuff is great and I am all for it but it still comes down to one thing. If you can't drive the car than your not going to win no matter how much money you spend...

Russ

P.S. Just my 2 cents!!!!!

[Charlie Tackett]

DDH, want me to tell you how many times Ted told me he couldn't read the pit board ( and it's commercial one for auto racing) because going by some of these pits at over 110-115mph inches apart from two or three karts, he can't take his eyes and concentration off what he is doing.

Also on numerous tracks all you can see is the pit straight. Not only do I not know how I am going to tell him to block somebody in a turn or part of the track I can't even see, I do not know how he is going to successfully block someone on a track that is 45ft wide with multiple lines that it wouldn't be blantantly obvious to any track official.

[deborah d-harpur]

Ummm. I think it was Deb K that talked about blocking.

with 2 debs posting maybe it gets confusing.

[Ardy Sadeghi]

there may be some truth to this notion that some karters just complain. Another way to look at it, perhaps some of us are not only passionate about our sports, we are also very concerned about its future. Complaining may be considered 'un-acceptable'. Then the question is, why do have so many so-called national organizations? If these orgs don't have our best interest and are not even trying to work with one anoter and improve our sport and our future, would that not be one cause for concerns and complains?

WKA as a for profit org, has no interest in road racers. Sure as long as we are around they don't mind making a few more bucks off of us. Their bread and butter is in their dirt track, roundy roundy and sprint racing. If road racing goes away, they could care less.

Now if some of us see our road racing future very bleak and are rasing voices is because we are concerned. Ofcourse, complaining needs to stop at some point and turn into action. As some of us are working to formulate uniform rules for ICe and F/E classes regardless of IKFs or WKAs, etc. Not an easy task, but not impossible. These orgs have no interest in our future. the local enduro clubs and their handful of club officials are the ones whom for years have done all the hard work and kept our sport alive. The one hope we have is to get more invovled with our local clubs and encourage them to work with other local clubs to secure our future. This is grass roots sports and we all need to do our share..