europe v usa

Russ Schaeffer · Joined: 02 Aug 2001 Posts: 40 Location: California

That there Jensen Button kid don't known he can make a hole bunch o money rac'n one of them thar Nascars with the other good ole boys.

That's it!
Russ Schaeffer

bird · Joined: 17 Jul 2001 Posts: 147

quote
Quote:

Bad Jeff- don't troll Mary-Ann, even on Fridays.
I hate football. don't like Swedes much either though, highly unjustified reputation at certain activities

quote
Quote:

On the other hand, how can a guy like Jenson Button go from karts to F1?
Jenson didn't do anything too unusual - FSA, FFord F3, F1 is quite a time-honoured route. He was just very young when he won FSA.

Now Raikkonen, that's something special - FSA, FRenault, F1.

Chaz Clover · Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 879

Chiming in.........

I think Mary Annis basically right. American drivers aren't groomed to race in F1 because their "schooling" isn't in a system that leads in that direction.

How to school our drivers? Send them to Europe at an early age, and race the bejesus out of them over there. Skip the SKUSA stuff, and run them where they really need to be. Let them race where they'll learn the skills necessary to take on the Euros at what is essentially their game and not ours.

If we can't send them to Europe, then teach them Portuguese and ship them to Brazil. That country (with a smaller population and weaker economy) has turned out more F1 Drivers and World Champions than the US by a wide margin. More than some European countries for that matter.

To develop a system that would move our best talent into F1 would take years - much of it spoent weaning American "Race Fans" away from their Gladitorial Combat mindset to appreciate and support road racing. It would also take a lot of time to get the US system less self-centered on it's own thing and more willing to work with the international racing community, and this would include karting.

It would mean adopting "their" rules, and working within "their" system. Not running off and doing our own thing and hoping Bernie will take notice. HINT: he won't take notice.

The F1 community and it's training formulas have a succesful system that produces drivers that are unquestionably the best in the world. A wise man once said that to be successful, one should emulate success.

Chaz Clover
http://www.kartmonster.com

Erik Frank · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 1:45 pm Post subject: europe v usa

I think the original post was talking about a U.S. driver. To me, that means a driver that grew up racing in the U.S.

If we "shipped" a driver over to Europe at a very young age, then they're basically no longer an American driver!!!

I mean, what makes guys like Foyt such a standout, is that he was "trained" in the "American" system of driving (ovals, USAC open wheel, etc.) but throughout his career, he was able to race against European guys and do well. LeMans comes to mind.

I'm not a NASCAR fan at all, but I'd love to see Tony Stewart do some more road racing. He has done some enduro/road race karting in his past. Gordon (Jeff) has expressed an interest in "trying" an F1 car. That would make the U.S. media go beserk.

However, under the Chaz Clover driver development training system, I would choose Brazil. Awesome weather and awesome babes on the beach! (can't race *all* the time!)

You know, this system is already in place in America. Its just that it exists on two wheels. The current Superbike World Champion, Colin Edwards, is from Conroe, Texas. And lets not forget mssrs Rainey, Lawson, Spencer, Schwantz, and Roberts (SR. and Jr.). All G.P. World Champions from the U.S. of A. They did not grow up racing against guys in Europe. But they did grow up racing bikes.

Almost more than a U.S. driver in F1, what I'd like to see is a U.S. CAR in F1. We have the engineering talent and technology on this side of the pond to be competitive.

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: Erik Frank ]

Santos Fernandez · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 6 Location: Mexico City, Mexico

Totally agree with Chaz , if a U.S driver is going to be succesful in F1 , he has to be driving in Europe ,( ff1600, f3 , f3000 f1) by the way the best NASCAR driver would be A LOT slower than any F1 driver in a formula 1, it is just a complete different sport .

Dave Stevens · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2001 3:03 pm Post subject: europe v usa

quote:
Originally posted by John B:
Why cant the top US drivers cut it in F1 with the best from Europe

Maybe it has something to do with the fact there are only two or three decent teams in F1?

Dave

perfonic · Joined: 30 Jul 2001 Posts: 20

I think its easier to go from karts to F1 in europe because of what they run over there FA and FSA in the states the biggest thing is shifters,I heard from someone who is involve with ASN in Canada that when the World Karting Championships were hosted in Quebec in July one of the top drives might have been for CRG or Tonykart was already making 1.2 mil at the age of 18 test driving for an F1 team over there karting and F1 follow CIK/FIA Like we do in Canada.I also heard that next year before they televise F1 there we be 1/2 hour on karting to promote it before the race.

Terry Tilton · Joined: 20 Jul 2001 Posts: 58 Location: Austin, Tx

They build kart tracks in Europe the way we build football stadiums here. It has nothing to do with nature, it has everything to do with nurture. Put our young-ins in kart in europe when they are 7 and they'll learn. Look what happened when a group of our shifter aces went to Canada to run in conjunction with a CIK/FIA event. The lap time comparisons were a joke. They were 5-8 seconds a lap faster, with less horsepower, no gearbox, no front brakes. Yes, they weighed less, but it would not have mattered. Put them in the shifter kart that qualified on pole and I bet he'd drop the pole time down 3 seconds.
I can assure you, not even powerboat racing budgets compare to a F1 teams budget. 3 years ago Ferrari's budget was 300 million. For ONE season. Thats enough to finace half the field of Winston Cup for a full season.

Colin Fleming · Joined: 06 Aug 2001 Posts: 23 Location: North Hills, CA

Terry,

I have to disagree with you on that...a few years ago Patrick Long (trained in America) raced for the CRG factory, he actually won one of the biggest races of the year (winter cup). Philip Giebler (also trained in America) won the CIK North American Championships against the field of European drivers. I also have limited experience in Europe and have run with the current world champion David Fore.. i have to say i defenitley held my ground...and surprised his team at the same time. There is a better system in Europe but give a top American the same situation (as in P.Longs place) and i guarentee you you have a front runner.

Colin

Jeff Franz · Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 524

quote:
Originally posted by Erik Frank:
Gordon (Jeff) has expressed an interest in "trying" an F1 car. That would make the U.S. media go beserk.

Jeff Gordon, not too long ago, was invited to informally test a Stewart F1 car, right before the Jaguar switchover, if memory serves. I have heard two theories on why that test did not occur.

1) He was apprehensive about his performance (I find that doubtful).

2) The F1 car he would've been testing was powered by a certain blue oval motor, and his bowtie relationships put the immediate clampdown on him (I find this likely, yet tragically unfortunate).

It is too bad we don't see more versatility among today's drivers.

Jeff

[ August 11, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff Franz ]

Larry Ferguson · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 1:27 pm Post subject: europe v usa

Alright Colin! Perfect reply and a point well made. The time is coming that we will see Americans making a presence in Europe. We have some very talented drivers (like Colin for example) that can and will get the job done if and when the opportunity presents itself. Problem is, it's very hard to find a "sugar daddy" if you will, that is willing to spend the obscene amounts of dough needed to put an American in the proper place. I for one believe that it will happen, albiet, not soon enough!

Darren Swisher · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:07 pm Post subject: europe v usa

I love F1 racing but do we really think these guys are the best drivers in the world. The perception from the fans may say one thing but most of these drivers are not the best or the elite. They may think so but we can see week in and week out they are really some bone heads in there. These machine almost drive themselves these days.

I would say some of the best drivers in the world drive karts.

Darren

John Brittain · Joined: 08 Aug 2001 Posts: 5 Location: silsden england

Sorry folks for not posting my full name on the original post, i am new to your forum and didnt know the rules.
However I do seem to have created some interest with my poser.
Reading between the lines it looks as though in the UK and Europe from the moment a young 8 or 9 year old steps in to a kart the driving ambition is F1. And the system is set to allow natural progression through the various formula. Where in the states it is not quite so straightforward.
I never said the talent isnt there it is, but the system is not built around such a tiered schooling.

John Brittain · Joined: 08 Aug 2001 Posts: 5 Location: silsden england

By the way Darren, a certain Nigel Mansell (ex Karter) didnt do too bad both sides of the pond. For a bonehead that is.

Darren Swisher · Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2001 2:55 pm Post subject: europe v usa

John, Oh do not get me wrong, we have our share of boneheads here. I did say most ans not all. Nigel was/is one of the great drivers.

Our system is bad to say the least, To many chiefs and not enough indians. It has been taken over by people that wish to make their own rules, putting themselves ahead intead of karting as a sport.

In my opionion this may be unfixable. We need to start from scratch, there are some organizations that are trying to do this.

Darren

P.S. Any opinions on how to fix it?