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Bill Wright
Joined: 27 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003
Location: United States, Florida, Panama City
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 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: Re: NOT IN FAVOR |
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| Derek James Sobel wrote: | Good morning Bill.
We are not in favor of the change. We run this way in oval racing and it does create more accidents. In your case you are placing 10 of the fastest drivers to the back where they are not only fighting between themselves to get to the front, but also slower drivers. Learning to pass and drive can be left to the local and states races. By the time you race in the FWT you better know how to pass! It is bad enough that we are now racing on D1 tires, which have proven to be near a second slower then D2 tires. Please change it back if you receive overwelming responces in this opion. Thank you! And good luck! |
Derrick,
I'm not sure where you are getting the "10 of the fastest drivers" from?? Nothing in my regulations says anything about 10 drivers??
Racing and passing occurs at the World Championships. Why would we limit it to "local and state races"? And what "local and state races" in Florida use this format? I don't know of any.
Also, since you're talking about D1 tires I can only assume you think this format change pertains to the FWT Rotax Max Challenge events. It does not. It only pertains to the FWT Formula Kart Racing events.
As I stated in the previous post the format change is confirmed for all Formula Kart Racing classes except TaG Cadet. We are still reviewing that category, and welcome comments pertaining to that category.
THANKS! 
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Bill Wright
Formula Kart Productions, Inc "SERIOUS FUN!"
Exclusive Promoter / Owner of the Florida Winter Tour
www.floridawintertour.com
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Derek James Sobel
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Bill,
Thank you for such a quick responce. I am sorry. I know that local and state races do not follow this inverted format. My point is that leave the learning to pass and drive in the local and state levels or your begginer classes. Not junior and senior classes. The FWT is an advance series. Leave it that way. As for the ten drivers, when you invert they will be placed from the front to the back. Look either way we will have SERIOUS FUN!!. Thank you! |
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 786
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: Re: NOT IN FAVOR |
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| Derek James Sobel wrote: | Good morning Bill.
We are not in favor of the change. We run this way in oval racing and it does create more accidents. In your case you are placing 10 of the fastest drivers to the back where they are not only fighting between themselves to get to the front, but also slower drivers. Learning to pass and drive can be left to the local and states races. By the time you race in the FWT you better know how to pass! It is bad enough that we are now racing on D1 tires, which have proven to be near a second slower then D2 tires. Please change it back if you receive overwelming responces in this opion. Thank you! And good luck! |
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Brian G. Wilson
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 679
Location: United States, Florida,
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Why don't you cut the class in half and then invert each half on the same grid. That way the faster 50% will have to move up through the other faster karts and the slower 50% will move up through the slower karts, presumably keeping drivers with similar speed grouped together.
For example, if there were 30 karts on the grid, the fastest kart would be placed in 15th and the 15th fastest would be placed on the pole. Then the 16th fastest kart would be placed in 30th and the 30th fastest kart would be in 16th.
I think that would be a good compromise of trying to promote better racing and skills while lessening the chance of incidents. Definitely make you strive to be in the top 50% while preventing a fast guy from sandbagging to get a good inverted starting position.
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patrick slattery
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 786
Location: United States, Ohio, cleves
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian G. Wilson wrote: | Why don't you cut the class in half and then invert each half on the same grid. That way the faster 50% will have to move up through the other faster karts and the slower 50% will move up through the slower karts, presumably keeping drivers with similar speed grouped together.
For example, if there were 30 karts on the grid, the fastest kart would be placed in 15th and the 15th fastest would be placed on the pole. Then the 16th fastest kart would be placed in 30th and the 30th fastest kart would be in 16th.
I think that would be a good compromise of trying to promote better racing and skills while lessening the chance of incidents. Definitely make you strive to be in the top 50% while preventing a fast guy from sandbagging to get a good inverted starting position. |
Seems like we should just leave things that have been working over the years alone. Don't try to fix what isn't broken. |
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michael schorn
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 577
Location: United States, Oregon, Banks
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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We ran the same kind of style for many years at the gold cup in the northwest. Qualify heads up first head full invert second heat and results of the two heats sets line up for the main. Results of the main is the result of the weekend.
In the last years in order to save time for the rest of the classes. Qualifying counts as a heat ( we run a 5 minute qualifying session) We then invert 50% of the field for the heat race. Results of the heat and the qualifying sets the line up for the Main. Results of the main are for the day.
I works well and the racers like it and the racing is exciting not only to drive but to watch as well. Interesting thing is it takes more than just a fast kart to win in this series.
Some of the more well funded teams don't like that but it is an equalizer and brings some respect among all of the racers and teams.
I wish the nationals would be ran that way as well as the other series.
It would make for some great racing.
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Michael Pagano
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 260
Location: United States, New York, East Hampton
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I think this is a great idea to give an opportunity to all drivers. In the video of the cik race posted earlier, which uses the same format, no more crashes happened than usual. On top of that i know plenty of fast drivers who cant race well. This put much more emphasis onto strategy and using your brain. You cant possibly say the fast drivers are "too good", or not good enough, to pass the slow guys in a fair fashion. The "slow" guys are usually within 8 tenths of the fast guys anyway. Its not like a club race with complete rookies. The fwt isnt a beginner series. sack up or pack up |
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Ihor Bilyy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 536
Location: United States, Georgia, Canton
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian G. Wilson wrote: | Why don't you cut the class in half and then invert each half on the same grid. That way the faster 50% will have to move up through the other faster karts and the slower 50% will move up through the slower karts, presumably keeping drivers with similar speed grouped together.
For example, if there were 30 karts on the grid, the fastest kart would be placed in 15th and the 15th fastest would be placed on the pole. Then the 16th fastest kart would be placed in 30th and the 30th fastest kart would be in 16th.
I think that would be a good compromise of trying to promote better racing and skills while lessening the chance of incidents. Definitely make you strive to be in the top 50% while preventing a fast guy from sandbagging to get a good inverted starting position. |
Huge difference between finishing 15th and 16th in heat race
You do the math |
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Barry Hastings
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 231
Location: United States, Florida, Jacksonville
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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At first I didn't like the idea, but more and more reading the comments and reasons I like it more and more.
Years ago racing with Laura there was a kid who's dad put him in front of the grid every practice. Kid was really fast. But couldn't race. Behind a slower kart he would stay. I had seen some really fast kids win tons of races but were little more than steering wheel holders. (this was more on ovals) when the dads move the kid to a car, couldn't get out of his own way.
I have been working with another driver this fall on race craft. Mental preparedness, and how to keep emotions from clouding judgements. It's frustrating but fun. Try to instill confidence and prepare "if/then" for taki g advantage of passing opportunities as they arise and know where and when they come up.
Romain Grosign (very bad spelling) is obviously very fast but has made tons of errors this year. Not saying he doesn't know how to race but could put the mistakes he made in a karting format way way way less expensive than bending a kart or two. Imagine your kid hero driver wins everything in karting and pops moves him to a formula car. Now kid hero driver is mid pack in a vehicle that costs as much to run the event as his whole karting package did having to then learn how to pass?
Oh yeah love the format. |
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Joe Palmer
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Location: United States, Florida, St. Augustine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Barry Hastings wrote: | At first I didn't like the idea, but more and more reading the comments and reasons I like it more and more.
Years ago racing with Laura there was a kid who's dad put him in front of the grid every practice. Kid was really fast. But couldn't race. Behind a slower kart he would stay. I had seen some really fast kids win tons of races but were little more than steering wheel holders. (this was more on ovals) when the dads move the kid to a car, couldn't get out of his own way.
I have been working with another driver this fall on race craft. Mental preparedness, and how to keep emotions from clouding judgements. It's frustrating but fun. Try to instill confidence and prepare "if/then" for taki g advantage of passing opportunities as they arise and know where and when they come up.
Romain Grosign (very bad spelling) is obviously very fast but has made tons of errors this year. Not saying he doesn't know how to race but could put the mistakes he made in a karting format way way way less expensive than bending a kart or two. Imagine your kid hero driver wins everything in karting and pops moves him to a formula car. Now kid hero driver is mid pack in a vehicle that costs as much to run the event as his whole karting package did having to then learn how to pass?
Oh yeah love the format. |
So in the short version, you approve of the format because it helps teach race craft. I agree! However, after everyone is finished pontificating, it will be interesting to see how it actually works out. You just know that no matter what anyone thinks right now, their opinions are subject to immediate reversal. The conversations in the pits both pre-race & post race could be very interesting! |
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Bill Wright
Joined: 27 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003
Location: United States, Florida, Panama City
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Palmer wrote: | | .....after everyone is finished pontificating, it will be interesting to see how it actually works out. You just know that no matter what anyone thinks right now, their opinions are subject to immediate reversal. The conversations in the pits both pre-race & post race could be very interesting! |
So, based on the results, and the comments pre and post race I'd say it was a hit.
Entries were up about 14% over 2012. Many said the reason they were there was for the new format.
41 in TaG Cadet. 21 in TaG Junior. 19 in TaG Senior. 10 in TaG Masters.
Number of laps turned was up by about 28% over 2012.
No red flags. No "carnage". Lots of good racing.
In the first race utilizing the inverted field Jose Zanella went from 19th to first in just over two laps in TaG Senior. By the end of that race Danny Formal had worked his way to second from 18th. The next day Danny went from 18th to first but it took him most of the race to do it. Zanella could only get to fifth.
We're going to talk to the Cadets about using it at the Homestead rounds. Many Cadet parents in Palm Beach wanted us to use it but we're still evaluating the level of the drivers. I'm hoping we use it for Cadet at least at the last rounds in March at OGP.
Come join us for some "Serious Fun!" at the FWT Formula Kart Racing events.
Discounted online registration for the Homestead rounds February 16 & 17 closes Friday Feb 8. You can register onsite but it's $100 more!
See more at www.floridawintertour.com . 
_________________
Bill Wright
Formula Kart Productions, Inc "SERIOUS FUN!"
Exclusive Promoter / Owner of the Florida Winter Tour
www.floridawintertour.com
Lo Rider Casual Kart Apparel |
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Bill Wright
Joined: 27 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003
Location: United States, Florida, Panama City
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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If you'd like to see some of the action from the 2013 FWT click on the MULTI MEDIA section at www.floridawintertour.com and watch the FWT LIVE! archive video action from the Formula Kart Racing and FWT Rotax Max Challenge events at Palm Beach.
FWT.....THE Winter Place to Be!!
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Bill Wright
Formula Kart Productions, Inc "SERIOUS FUN!"
Exclusive Promoter / Owner of the Florida Winter Tour
www.floridawintertour.com
Lo Rider Casual Kart Apparel |
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Karl Rickert
Joined: 03 Aug 2002
Posts: 227
Location: United States, Tennessee, Dayton
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Bill,
How many drivers that are the track champs or quick at their own track run quicker at their track when a Divisional, Regional or National race comes to their track? I've seen it a hundred times. Why.....because they're in the mix of it with those "Faster, Better" drivers. Does it make you a better driver? I say yes and any opportunity to race with the best of best should not be passed up.
We said it ourselves during the Formula Kart weekend at Palm Beach, when Corey Towles, being chased by Jose Zanella, ran his quickest laps. Some 0.50 seconds quicker than any of his laps up to then.
The format works! You get more laps and it teaches you to be patient, how to pass and become a better driver.
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Troy Berry
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 236
Location: United States, Nevada, Reno
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: Invert Format |
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We have used this format at Desert Park Raceway for the Northern Nevada Kart Club for years and everybody loves it. More seat time. The only difference is we only invert the top 6 in the second heat. We have smaller fields and it keeps the very fast and the medium fast guys together, and no one gets run over. 
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Bill Wright
Joined: 27 Jul 2001
Posts: 1003
Location: United States, Florida, Panama City
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm getting many requests to invert the Cadet field for the next rounds so I'm going to send out a request to all the entries for that class ( 40 in Palm Beach!  ) to get comments.
We are considering only inverting the top "X" ( in Cadet ) as an option, too.
Discounted Online registration for the Homestead rounds of FWT Formula Kart Racing (Shifter and TaG) and Rotax Max Challenge events closes on February 8th. REGISTER NOW!!
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Bill Wright
Formula Kart Productions, Inc "SERIOUS FUN!"
Exclusive Promoter / Owner of the Florida Winter Tour
www.floridawintertour.com
Lo Rider Casual Kart Apparel |
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