Tired of blown head gaskets and ruined pistons?

Andre Eriksen

I don't know how many blown head gaskets I replaced last year - it was a lot, and in many cases the water that entered the chamber had caused detonation oftentimes ruining the piston and or head or cylinder.

We always check between sessions but it still happens and I know most people I know that is running stick Honda has exactly the same issues.

To minimize it the series tried higher octane fuel, we tried Cometic gaskett etc. but they still do not last very long.

I know it is an old trick and I know it is used in Rotax as well so I CNC milled two O-ring grooves in the head and now the problem is gone! It is obviously not legal in SKUSA but I will try to have it made it legal in the Molecule Karting Series as it is a very low cost, reliable and proven concept.

One ruined piston, head or even worse a cylinder, will easily pay for the CNC manufacturing, and even if they do not allow it I will still use it in practice as it makes the package much ore durable. It will change the squish but it is very little...

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Tim Pappas · Joined: 25 Jul 2001 Posts: 792 Location: Burkina Faso,

Unless you are running too hot, too lean, or squeezing down the exit of the muffler too much, I just don't get all the blown head gaskets on a stock Honda. It is quite possible that the detonation is happening first, causing the blown head gasket. If you warp the head or cylinder from the blown head gasket then new gaskets won't seal.

If they approve o ringing the head, then we can just lean on the engine a little more. Now the head is sealed, but the head surface erodes through slight detonation. Let's add det. rings to fix that. Okay, now we can lean on the engine a little more. And soon we are back to 2001.

Chime in if I am wrong, but I haven't heard of blowing head gaskets being a widespread problem with stock moto.

Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:19 am Post subject:

You also decreased the squish by about .010", so now you're leaning on the motor a bit. Also, that's a really nice cnc groove on the outside ring, we just run a round groove for the mod motos with copper washers on the head studs, works without a hitch....

CR
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Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:21 am Post subject:

We used to blow head gaskets on the mod motos with all the compression and timing we ran. We switch to Cometic head gaskets and never had a problem before we o-ringed them. Also, that's a really nice cnc groove on the outside ring, we just run a round groove for the mod motos with copper washers on the head studs, works without a hitch....

You also decreased the squish by about .010", so now you're leaning on the motor a bit more.

CR
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Andre Eriksen · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:02 am Post subject:

I'm glad if you don't have problems with it Tim. If we were running too hot or too lean we would fix that and not the head.

Yes I know about the copper washers. No need for those.
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Jeff DeMello · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:57 am Post subject:

I ran Stock Honda for 6 years and never had a head gasket problem.. I also never reused a head gasket..
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joseph hollinger · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:17 am Post subject:

Blown one head gasket in the last five years and it was a Willow Springs and at least 105 ambient.
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Andre Eriksen · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:21 am Post subject:

It is a well known issue where I race for sure. Perhaps more so for the heavier drivers it seems. Don't know if it is because the engine works harder with the heavier package but the issue is real for sure. The three shops I spoke with also confirmed it and as mentioned the series tried to move to 110 Octane to get rid of the problem.
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Jeff DeMello · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:27 am Post subject:

Eric ( Andre Embarassed

) I weighted 220lbs Shocked

I crossed the scales between 430 - 450lbs Embarassed

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Emmick F125 Pavesi

Andre Eriksen · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:30 am Post subject:

Name is Andre Wink

I do not doubt you - I am just reporting the facts... If I was the only one with the problem we could all just blame me for doing something wrong Very Happy

I even tried to run it richer (deliberately rich) but the gasket blows anyway - most cases I can catch it before detonation happens.
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Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:30 am Post subject:

Matt Dixon · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am Post subject:

ERC98 is junk
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Andre Eriksen · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am Post subject:

The fuel did not help and it is not detonation. As mentioned I can oftentimes catch it before any detonation and damage to piston/head occurs. I can simply see small pitting in the surface of the piston from water.

As soon as I change the gasket it goes away (same jetting/everything the same just new gasket) until a few hours later where the same thing happens again. It is also easy to see form the gasket that it is blown and where it happened.

I appreciate all the theories and if we could solve the problem cool - but it is not damages gaskets from detonation. It is the other way around.
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Jason Berry · Advertiser Joined: 29 Dec 2001 Posts: 295

I have to agree with Pappas on this one. Detonation first, then blown head gaskets. We've been building and tuning stock Honda for a couple of years and this is not a wide spread issue.

If a customer is having ongoing head gasket issues, it is usually a fuel or jetting issue. Engine is running too lean. If the damaged parts (cylinder and head) are not replaced, the problem continues.

If you would like to send your parts in for inspection, we would be happy to look at them for you.

If you want to go down the avenue of detonation rings and inserts, send me a PM.
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Steve Buckner · Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 839

Could the head bolts be bottoming out in the cylinder and not giving you the proper torque reading. Just throwing one out there. Wink