Need Advice and Help Appraising a Kart.

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

If you want to prime it and check the fuel pump, take the spark plug out (put it into the plug wire and test against the cylinder), put the kart in first gear and turn the axle. That should prime the whole system and prove if your pump is working while not risking starting the engine.

You want the plug connected to the wire so the system electrical circuit doesn't short the ignition box.

Larry
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F125 #196
Old Birel/ hodgepodge Honda CR125
Lefty Funk
Detroit Region

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject:

darn double post.
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F125 #196
Old Birel/ hodgepodge Honda CR125
Lefty Funk
Detroit Region

Vernon Head · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject:

Russ:

The clutch will never completely disengage because of the oil trapped between the plates. If the kart is in gear you will notice that the kart doesn't move freely. However, if you are sitting in gear at idle and the engine dies with the brakes on and the clutch in, the clutch may need to be adjusted so that it disengages a little more. Just make sure there is about 1/2" play on the handle before it starts to pull on the springs.

The brakes may just need to be bled.

Russ Clark · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject:

Man you guys have been great.

Larry , I spun it for a while with the plug pulled and no movement on the fuel. I eventually removed the inlet line from the pump and sucked some fuel into the line. I then replaced the line on the pump and spun the motor some more. Still no movement on the fuel. Guess I have to rebuild the pump. I did notice that the fill cap on the gas tank that has a hose that runs for a vent does not completely seal. Is the fuel system supposed to be sealed? I have experience with R/C cars where they use pressure from the exhaust to force fuel out of the tank and into the carb.

I am going to see if I can find the rebuild kit locally, if not I will have to wait for one to arrive.

Vernon, thanks again for the good info. That is good to know about the clutch and I won't sweat it till I get this thing to fire.

Vernon Head · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't rebuild that fuel pump just yet. Don't worry about the seal on the vent. Keep blowing into the tank, then turning the motor over. If nothing happens, get some gas into the bowl through one of the overflow tubes and see if it will at least fire. If it fires but won't run, maybe the pump needs rebuilding.

You could have a sealing problem, but not at the tank. Make sure all the tubes that go into and out of the pump are sealing. You can use cable ties. Also where the pulse tube goes into the crankcase.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:52 am Post subject:

Sucking on a fuel line is never a good idea, well unless you like the taste of kart fuel. Shocked

Blowing into the tank overflow / catch can should pressurize the tank and lines and push fuel into the carb.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Russ Clark · Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:39 am Post subject:

Ha! race fuel in the mouth is not so bad, in the ear on the other hand will bring you to your knees. Unfortunately I do have first hand experience with this. Embarassed

Joe Ricard · Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:26 am Post subject:

Just to put things in perspective, I am rebuilding both MC's and all the calipers this weekend. Front end alignment, tire changing, making new lead blocks. Fixed a sensor lead.

I think karts take more maintenance than cars. just so I can increase the pain I am picking up another old CRG today for an adult play kart. It also needs a crap load of work to it.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Russ Clark · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:32 am Post subject:

I got a little time to fiddle with the kart this morning. I still couldn't get the pump to prime so I replaced all of the lines from the tank, from the pump to the tee and the pulse signal line. I got the fill cap with the vent line on the tank to seal so I eliminated that nonissue. I still couldn't get the pump to prime with the plug out and turning over the motor as fast as I could by hand. So I pulled the outlet line from the pump off of the tee and sucked fuel up to the pump and halfway through that line. Then I quickly replaced the line to seal the circuit.

At this point I can turn over the motor and see some fuel movement in the lines but there are BIG air bubbles. I decided to put the plug back in and tried to start her up. No luck.

Out of desperation I pulled the air filter off and gave it a quick shot of brake clean in the carb. Low and behold a quick pull of the strap and it will fire but peters out as quick as the brake clean is burned.

I think I can chalk it up to the engine not getting fuel at this point. I have one more short section of line from the tee to the carb that I can replace but it appears fuel is actually making it that far is spurts around the bubbles. All I can figure is that either the pump needs to be rebuilt, the carb is filthy and needs to be cleaned out(I planned to anyways was just trying to fire it off so I could make a decision on the purchase) or a third option that I am unaware of.

Bill Schmidt · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject:

Screw in a compression tester put it in 2nd gear and push the kart about 20 feet. See what kind of readings you get. Might even try it after being oil fogged, as well.
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Bill Schmidt

'95 Trackmagic 125 shifter (Kawi)
'88 Red Devil F500 4-link rear (Rotax)

Russ Clark · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject:

Bill, I did as you suggested except I used about 20 feet of strap on the stand. I don't have anyone here to help me lift the kart. The gauge came up with 145 psi. Obviously this was stone cold. Where should we be?

Jason Vehige · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject:

Double check and make sure the fuel pickup is completely submerged in fuel.... Don't ask me how I know this Embarassed

Twice if you pressurize the tank and no fuel goes in the feed line (pinch off the return line while blowing into the vent tube.
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Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204

Bill Schmidt · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject:

Others may correct me if I am off a little , but 145 for a moto sounds like a keeper to me. Mine ran 125 after I did a new cylinder, piston and rings.
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Bill Schmidt

'95 Trackmagic 125 shifter (Kawi)
'88 Red Devil F500 4-link rear (Rotax)

Joe Ricard · Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject:

Pick up line in the tank is SHOT !!!! as in leaking up at the fitting connection. Only place to get bubbles.

You can take a water bottle (once dried out) and use it as a gas tank with just a straight piece of hose. In other words by pass and eliminate the tank suction line.

Can ypu pull out the pick up suction line? My arrow is a real SOB to get out. CRG is pull straight out the top.

Oh and I got the old Briggs WF on the CRG up and running, and fixed the VEN 99 brakes with the last rebuild kit on earth. One more kart to beat the hell out of.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject:

I went down the same path you guys are thinking on the fuel pickup. THat is why I replaced the hose from the screw in fitting to the metal pick up. I also couldn't get the new hose to straighten out so I ran it a little long and then put in a full gallon to be sure it was submerged.

I am going to go back over all of the new line I ran to be sure everything is tight. I thought I had a zip tie on everything except the pickup but I am going to double check. I didn't put on on the pickup because I don't want a zip tie in the tank rotting away. If I am wrong on that line of thinking let me know.