Need Advice and Help Appraising a Kart.

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject:

Funny you mention the seat mounts. I was just looking as the chassis to see if I saw any possible damage and was noticing the adjustably of those mounts. The good news is other than some minor scrapes mostly on the underneath of the motor mount I don't really see any damage.

This is probably a silly question but it seems the kart was stored with the radiator and tranny dry. The owner gave me some water wetter to put in the radiator but he didn't have areal clear answer for what goes in the tranny. He just said ATF synthetic. What is the consensus on this?

He also said to use pump gas with a 30:1 mix. Does this sound right? I thought all of these things used race gas mixed.

Vernon Head · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject:

Yes, you can use ATF. I think 30:1 may be a little low for a shifter. That is about 4 oz./gallon. I see most people going more like 6 oz./gal.

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:58 am Post subject:

For solo I use 32:1. If I go to the track I'll add a little more oil and adjust my jetting appropriately.

Larry
_________________
F125 #196
Old Birel/ hodgepodge Honda CR125
Lefty Funk
Detroit Region

Jason Vehige · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:31 am Post subject:

Going price for an older 2003 to 2005 shifter with a mod Moto or ICC should be in the 2500 to 3500 range unless there is something special about it or it comes with a boat load of spares. If you run CP then fixing up a kart should be pretty easy for you Laughing

.... Fuel wise If its a Mod Moto avoid pump gas... Go 100 plus leaded or perhaps 98.

I run VP ms98 with 8 oz of Castor but us ICC guys are lower compression and higher RPM Cool

Come out to Dixie with it!!! I will be there with a few other KM crazies Very Happy

_________________
Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204

Russ Clark · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:01 am Post subject:

Jim McMahon · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:13 am Post subject:

Looks like you have a project on your hands! Brembo brakes work great and it seems like spares shouldn't be an issue

Even if its stock I would shy away from pump gas if you can. Too many variables on what you are getting. Shoot for something that 96MON. At the very least try and get something without ethanol, marine pump might be a viable option. Fuel is cheaper than pistons. I would have said 6oz/gal of oil (around 24:1) but if the 30ish is working for people in solo then why not run with it.

Before you run it, at the least I'd recommend replacing the crank seals in case they have hardened. Go over all the rubber components with a fine tooth comb as air leaks at best will cause headaches and at worst cause blowups. Idealy you should replace the crank bearings as well as the big and small end if it's been laying up. With a CR that basically means you might as well get a new crank assy. A pressure test at 5psi for 5 mins wouldn't be a bad idea. Plan on stripping the carb and bathing the components in a bath of B12 carb cleaner for a while.
Or, you can just fire it up and see what happens!

ATF is fine in the tranny. Dexron III or equiv is popular.
_________________
Live in the midwest and have a TaG, Shifter, KPV, KT100, Animal\LO206, enduro or superkart?
Click here to join the karting festival at Blackhawk, IL June 1st-2nd.

Russ Clark · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject:

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject:

Raising hand for one of the KM Crazies going to Dixie. You can see what a 2500.00 kart looks like.
_________________
Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject:

Definitely a CTS based on the Brembos, adjustable seat struts, steering column mount, 3rd rail, axle carriers, etc. The red was likely a repaint because the side pod mounts are painted and neither of our CTS (both metallic grey frames) were painted.

It's pre-2002 as my 2000 had the same 3rd rail as this one, where Lisa's 2002 is a removable bar.

The CTS chassis is awesome as are the Brembo Brakes. Although you'd think the brake parts are easy to come by, they aren't, and if when you find them they're expensive. You can't rebuild the master cylinders and it was cheaper to get lucky and find an extra set of front calipers when mine needed work.

I sold my kart for a great deal at $1500 when it had a motor problem, was realistically worth $2k.

Unfortunately, I would run from this one unless it's being given to you for free or it's going to be a parts kart for another CTS and here's why:

- Brakes are the number one thing that must be working perfectly for me to want to buy a kart. They are the most expensive thing to fix, if fixable. And are a royal PIA if you can't get them right. The brake bias set to one side scares me as well.

- RUST! This kart was left in the rain, for sure, and then never cleaned up. It practically looks like there's mold on it. I used to freak out the minute it started to rain at our events if I didn't pre-prep the kart for it, because I'd have to spend hours on the clean-up (we were always running 4 karts).

- Parts availability. CTS's aren't made anymore. The main thing you have to worry about is brakes (which are not CTS but Brembo, so you might still be able to get everything) steering column, and their seat struts (which can probably be made easily). Something to think about though as far as fixing stuff.

- There's way better out there that you can swing a deal on. I can't imagine you're not going to have to put a lot of work into this.

I'm gonna say because of the neglect, it's a $500 kart. It's not because it's all that it's worth, it's because you won't know how much it needs until you run into each problem. Heck a floor pan will need to be custom (if it's not included). All that stuff will add up very fast and before you know it, you'll have a $2500 kart that's still sorted out vs. what you could get for that amount that's coming right off the track and is trophying at Nationals.

EDIT: Read the thread better about the floor pan and brakes. You HAVE to roll it and drive it to test the brakes. Assuming they're working fine, then the value is much higher and it easily becomes a $1000 kart, but I wouldn't pay more than that due to the rest of the above reasoning.

Brian

Vernon Head · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject:

This place has a bunch of Brembo parts. I just bought some.

http://www.kartwarehouseusa.com/

Brian Garfield · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject:

Yep, know it well... See any rebuild parts there? Am I missing something? They all look like straight up replacements.

Brian

Vernon Head · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject:

This place has rebuild kits:

http://www.fastech-racing.com

Vernon Head · Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject:

The CTS style of master cylinder looks like it is fairly common. I did a search for them and found quite a few bike places that sell it.

Russ Clark · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject:

Vernon and Brian, thanks for the great information.

I did get the chance to work on it a little bit this morning. I poped the head off and it looked OK. The cylinder was clean but did have one slight grove in it, nothing major. The piston has no indications of major problems with the motor. The head was a little dirty but cleaned up ok. All in all other than a little rust in the water jackets(what I would expect with most all motors) everything looked like a motor that had been run but was still in working condition.

So I put the head back on and cleaned out the gas tank. When cleaning the tank I went ahead and replaced the tubing for the pickup. I decided to leave all of the other lines in the interest of not having a lot of time to work and wanting to try to fire it off.

I mixed up a gallon of C12 and put it in the tank. I started to roll the rear tire on the stand with it in second gear to see if I could get any fuel in the line. I wasn't see any movement so I decided to try wrapping a ratchet strap(without the ratchet) around the tire and pulling to speed up the process. Apparently just any old strap doesn't work? The two I tried just slid around the tire and accomplished no work.

After fooling with that for 30 minutes I got the kart off the stand and started pushing it in gear to see if that would work better. I realized that if it did start with me pushing it it could lead to disaster so I was just looking for fuel to start moving in the lines. Still no luck and I was out of time at this point.

So here is what I learned and the questions it led too. Does the fuel system need to be primed or is it more likely that the fuel pump needs to be replaced? It is a rectangular Mikuni pump and I have seen rebuild kits so that shouldn't be a big deal but if there is some priming method I would like to try that first. I am really trying to get it to run before I spend any real money on the kart. That way I can return it with minimal investment if worse comes to worse.

Is a starter strap a special animal or was I wrapping it around the tire incorrectly?

I have a little concern with how stiff the clutch feels. The tranny was stored dry but I have put some ATF in it. The kart feels like it is still in gear when I pull the clutch, yet there is resistance and it feels like it is doing something when I pull the cable. Any ideas there?

The brakes. I think there are some rebuild kits with the extra stuff that comes with the cart. I haven't looked to see if they are for the rear or front yet. It appears the rear is no big deal to find. I haven't seen much as far as rebuilds or replacements for the fronts yet but pads look available and I already have a set of those in the extras. I have adjusted the balance bar and there is something a little odd at the masters. The actuator on the rear master(the one towards the outside of the frame and the one that the balance bar was adjust the farthest away from) has much more travel than the other one does. Even if I swing them individually there is a significate difference in available travel. I wouldn't think this is normal but the pedal and everything feels fine. Like you said Brian I will not know until I have it moving under it's own power.

Cliff Notes: Does the fuel system have to be primed or am I looking at a pump rebuild? Is there a technique to using a starting strap that is not obvious to the casual observer? This clutch feels too stiff and I am not sure it is fully disengaging, how should it feel and function? The brakes are a bit of a question mark but I am not going to worry about it until I get the thing running.

PS. Anytime water coming out of a motor smells like feet it is a little disturbing.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject:

You can prime the carb and lines, pump by blowing in the over flow tank. Fuel should run up the pick up line and out to the filter and pump, flow right through and fill the carb.

Put the engine in 3rd or 4th gear.

To get a better result put a 4X4 under the rear chassis to keep both rear tires off the ground. Put your foot on the bumper wrap a regular old strap as many times as 5 ft long will get you.

Give it a yank and it should start on a couple pulls as you got to get fuel in the case then into the combustion chamber. does this carb have a choke lever?

Sorry used to my Delorto. But that should get you there.

square Mikuni fuel pumps are Rotax stuff and are kinda weak. rebuild almost each race.

To test blow in the inlet side air goes in, blow in outlet and air should not go in. slightest leak = rebuild it.
_________________
Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.