Need Advice and Help Appraising a Kart.

Russ Clark

To give a little background on myself, I have been autocrossing for almost 10 years. I typically drive a CP Mustang(some of you may know the car, flat black 65) and am very slowly putting together an XP car. For the longest time I autocrossed stock class cars. Now that I have been driving a very fast prepared car I can jump in a stock or even SP car and it feels slow, in a good way. I am able to push those cars quickly and consistently. Having realized this I want something faster than the CP car so I can get the same effect when I come back to it. Well without spending a small fortune it seems a shifter kart is the best answer for this.

I have been looking for a good deal on a kart for a while now. My real criteria has been low maintenance and it needs to be significantly faster then the car I am currently driving, which any kart would be.

I think I have found the cart that fits the bill but I need some help determining first a value of the kart, and also figuring out if it will be a bigger headache than it is worth. Lastly I need to determine what I have really got here.

The kart has been sitting for 3 years and the owner does not know all the details unfortunately. It is a CTS chassis but he thought it was a CRG before I looked at it just to give you an idea. I have been able to figure out that it is a 2001 CTS and does have a Honda engine. The owner says that the engine is modified but he also stated he was told it made 37.5HP.

Right now the kart is filthy. The owner has told me to take it and get it running if I want and after I have had a chance to drive it tell him what I think it is worth and we would go from there. So now I have it and it is filthy, but looks like it will clean up easily enough.

Sorry for the book. There are more details but I don't want this to get too too long. Basically I just need advice on if the chassis is adequate, how much the kart is worth and where to start to get this thing up and running. I am attaching pictures for reference. I can take more pictures of specific things if it will help and provide more details if I know them.

Any advice is most appreciated.

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Joe Ricard · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject:

Maybe a grand. and you are going to put at least that much more into it to have any semblence of reliablility at an Autocross.

Does it run?

And most impotantly does it stop, I notice the bias bar all the way to one side of the master cylinder linkages.

Looks like the powder coat is peeling and could be one big rust ball under it.

Good luck.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject:

Supposedly it ran just fine when it was parked three years ago. The previous owner parked it due to health issues. With that being said, I don't know if just fluids and a plug will get it going or if it will require more, that is why I am posting here.

The bias bar is off because as he was showing it to me, he kept screwing with it to show me that is was adjustable.

I don't think the powder coat is peeling but will know for sure once I wash it. It is really really dirty.

To follow up on your comment what do you see that will add up to a grand of expense to get it running?

Bill Schmidt · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject:

Your gonna have a bitch of a time driving it without a floor pan!
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Bill Schmidt

'95 Trackmagic 125 shifter (Kawi)
'88 Red Devil F500 4-link rear (Rotax)

Scott Boito · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject:

Rebuild the motor since it's likely rusty and pretty grungy inside. I wouldn't try to start it before pulling the head to see what it looks like. Check the oil, too. And look for mice stuff in the air filter and silencer.

Probably new brake lines and rebuilding the calipers will be necessary due to the old fluid sitting in there eating the rubber bits.

New tires.

Check heim joints on steering rods.

Replace every nut you can find and safety wire everything on steering and brakes.

I'd give him a grand for it and know that you're looking at another $600-1200 to get it fully ready and safe for use.
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KM #68 - Haase/Honda kart
BetterOffRacing
Member of the SCCA KAC

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject:

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks Scott! This was the type of advice I was hoping for. It has Brembo brakes which from what I can tell aren't really used anymore. Is it hard to find rebuild parts for them?

Also if I take the head off am I just looking for rust? I haven't done any work on motorcycle motors before but have done R/C stuff and car stuff so I'm not completely out of my element. Is there a good book or resource for torque specs and techniques for these motors?

Scott Boito · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject:

You should be able to find Brembo rebuild items everywhere - they are still used on motorcycles quite a bit and should be good calipers. Local bike shop or eBay once you determine the caliper model number.

Yeah, pop the head off and check out the cylinder for any build-up of rust or other junk. Should be a nice smooth, cross-hatch metallic finish, but unless they kept it oiled, I expect to see something else. And the mouse thing could be a real issue, so be prepared to see anything. Don't forget to drain the cooling fluid from the head if it isn't already.

Drain the oil and flush it with some cheap oil to get out any strange stuff. Then use some Synchromesh or similar to lube the trans. You should get an idea how good/smooth the trans is after you've gotten some new oil in there.

As for torque, etc, I'm sure there are resources and advice on here, but I just go with the feel - not too much, not too little. The nuts are probably like 15-25 ft-lbs.
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KM #68 - Haase/Honda kart
BetterOffRacing
Member of the SCCA KAC

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject:

Awesome! and Thank you. I hope to start cleaning it up soon and will go from there. Once I have popped the head off I will report back.

If anyone else has thoughts in the meantime please don't hesitate. I will take as much constructive input as I can get.

Jason Vehige · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject:

800 to a grand ... Plan for a new gas tank, fuel pump rebuild, fuel lines plus everything else mentioned. A good project... But I personally would spend a bit more up front for a running package from a more common manufacturer as it will save you $$$ in the long. I am not sure what if any CTS specific parts are available like spindles, Brian Garfield may chime in?? As Lisa still has her CTS.
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Jason Vehige

08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204

Vernon Head · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject:

Looks like a decent project. CTS made high-quality karts, but I would first look for bent, cracked or welded frame and bad scrapes on the bottom. Not sure why it was painted red. Look to see that all the parts are there. You can still get Brembo parts but CTS stuff will be hard to find.

Motor looks like 2000/2001 to me. The carb looks a little strange. It might be a PWK but I can't tell for sure. Definitely pull the cylinder off and see if it needs replating, also look to see if the powervalve plugs are there. They cost a lot for that year. Is there up and down play on the rod? Shifting ok? The rebuild will cost a minimum of $500 if you do your own labor.

Ask the owner if it's got any problems or if it's been wrecked. I would expect to put $1k into it, but it should clean up real nice.

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject:

It would be great if Brian chimed. I read something as I have been trying to research that eluded to him owning a CTS but I was sure on that.

Jason you say you would pay a little more up front for a running package. I agree with that and it is what I have been looking for, for a while now. The packages I have been finding have been more like 3K for a 80 and 4K+ for a 125. It seems worse case I could have this up and running for around 2K and maybe quite a bit cheaper. Am I looking in the wrong places or is this the range you were thinking?

Vernon Head · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject:

Russ, I wouldn't worry about having the latest and greatest for your first kart. This is autocross, and it's mostly driver. You can be competitive in an older kart. I sense a post from Alan Sheidler is on its way...

Russ Clark · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks Vernon. I'm not overly concerned with being competitive on a national level, I just want to be significantly faster than the cars I typically drive. I'm am looking for a low hassel training tool. I doubt I would ever attempt to run a tour or nationals in a kart. I am 220 lbs so I don't hold a lot of hope of being super competitive nationally no matter how good I drive.

You question the frame being red. Is that not a normal color for CTS?

Vernon Head · Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject:

The red could have been a custom color. Most of the CTS karts were painted gray, and they also came unpainted. I owned a tag kart once that was a CTS. I even met Ray Cunningham, the guy who made them. He was a real perfectionist and these karts are works of art. Made of 4130 chromemoly and Tig welded. Even the bumpers. They also had this trick seat mounting system that let you move the seat around without drilling new holes.