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Ken Schilling
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1345
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: SuperNats Apex Curbing Opinions |
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As part of the SKUSA staff as well as a SuperNats S4 driver I would like to start this thread for opinions of the apex curbing that SKUSA introduced at the SuperNats this year.
IMO the curbing is the best addition to the SuperNats track for improving both the driver sight lines & safety in the history of the event!!!
Please stay on topic as SKUSA will take into account all reasonable opinions.
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Ken Schilling
#21x / S4 / ProKart Challenge (PKC)
SKUSA Data Administrator
Good luck is where preparation and opportunity meet!!!
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steve dzurilla
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Posts: 220
Location: United States, California, cypress
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: Curbing |
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| Great for visibility and a lot safer then the barriers you couldn't see over, but why weren't the front edges level with the asphalt? It would have made the racing even better,if the curbs were usable. Just didn't make sense, but they were a huge improvement. I did see drivers hitting them and bouncing off of them, which really upset there karts and probably did some unforeseen damage. |
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Ken Schilling
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Curbing |
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| steve dzurilla wrote: | | Great for visibility and a lot safer then the barriers you couldn't see over, but why weren't the front edges level with the asphalt? It would have made the racing even better,if the curbs were usable. Just didn't make sense, but they were a huge improvement. I did see drivers hitting them and bouncing off of them, which really upset there karts and probably did some unforeseen damage. |
Thank you for your input Steve.
The curbs were meant to define the apex of the corner and improve the drivers sight line only. With the ~1" step from the asphalt to the curb (purposely chosen) it helped to keep curb riding/jumping to a minimum which would've minimized some of the safety gain.
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Ken Schilling
#21x / S4 / ProKart Challenge (PKC)
SKUSA Data Administrator
Good luck is where preparation and opportunity meet!!!
The opinions I express are mine alone and do not reflect those of any organization of which I am a member. |
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Mike Goebel
Joined: 28 Jul 2001
Posts: 5766
Location: United States, California, Winnetka
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Should have incorporated some kind of smooth transition instead of the abrupt elevation change from driving surface to curb. It's not safe to have that kind of bump.
Mike G.
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Ken Schilling
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Goebel wrote: | Should have incorporated some kind of smooth transition instead of the abrupt elevation change from driving surface to curb. It's not safe to have that kind of bump.
Mike G. |
Mike,
Thank you for your input and please see my response to Steve above.
The step is very easily driven on at the start of a race when the karts are bunched up and going relatively slowly. Once the karts string out and the pace picks up the drivers can use the curbs at their own risk depending on the speed and shape of the corner as well as any barriers that define the exit area of the turn.
"With the ~1" step from the asphalt to the curb (purposely chosen) it helped to keep curb riding/jumping to a minimum which would've minimized some of the safety gain."
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Ken Schilling
#21x / S4 / ProKart Challenge (PKC)
SKUSA Data Administrator
Good luck is where preparation and opportunity meet!!!
The opinions I express are mine alone and do not reflect those of any organization of which I am a member. |
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Alex King
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 930
Location: United States, California, OC
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| It looked great. If I was a driver or a spectator there...I prefer the curbs vs. the barriers. Now...if I was a buyer...looking to get a great shape same as new kart chassis from the SuperNats...I prefer no curbs. |
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Rob Howden
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 2145
Location: Canada, Ontario, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Goebel wrote: | Should have incorporated some kind of smooth transition instead of the abrupt elevation change from driving surface to curb. It's not safe to have that kind of bump.
Mike G. |
Guys,
While it was not the initial concept, SKUSA considered smoothing the curbs to the asphalt level. However, considering the fact that it was the first time they'd attempted this project, they were concerned that the feathered edges would chip off, as the curbs were not attached the asphalt in any way but the adhesion of the concrete.
The curbs maintained their integrity throughout the weekend, so I would expect that SKUSA may discuss lowered the apex height for 2013. I doubt that they will go to level, but it will make a difference.
Personally, I like that most corners were simply defined, although even with the higher curbs, many drivers found ways to launch over them.
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Josh Lane
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I personally loved having NO curbs. I loved the blindness of corners, always getting put in a "what if situation". Having the track change slightly throughout the day made for a temp. circuit and made vegas, vegas. Besides it being a parking lot it was just another sprint track IMO.
Josh |
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Robby Mott
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Joined: 20 Aug 2001
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought that the curbs were a HUGE improvement and also preferred the track layout over last year's. Much safer as you can see through the corner. No problems with the higher curbing......you can't use the barriers either! |
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darrell tunnell
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Robby Mott wrote: | | I thought that the curbs were a HUGE improvement and also preferred the track layout over last year's. Much safer as you can see through the corner. No problems with the higher curbing......you can't use the barriers either! |
+1 big improvement . |
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Andy Seesemann
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Joined: 16 Jul 2001
Posts: 3289
Location: United States, California, Fullerton
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ken,
They were definitely an improvement from years past as those in the middle to the back of the pack (unfortunately I'm included in this one this year), had a much better chance of avoiding the wrecks that happen. We could see through the corner much better and had time to react and adjust.
That being said, please fight the urge to rebut those opinions that are dissenting to yours. You asked for opinions and people will give them. You don't have to argue your side every time someone offers a different view.
You learn more from the "nays" than the "yays".
A
P.S. Greetings from the Rotax World Finals in Portugal.
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Jesus Vasquez
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Joined: 09 Sep 2002
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: curbs |
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Any records on how many wrecks in the past years over this year?
I heard from a few drivers that they felt the curbs caused more wrecks?
Seems like the guy going for the pass would get squeezed into the curb then would bounce back over.
Just what i heard since i wasnt driving, but seems like it makes a little sense?
They said the barriers wouldnt cause you to bounce back.
Any one driving feel that way?
Jesus |
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Ken Schilling
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1345
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Seesemann wrote: | Ken,
They were definitely an improvement from years past as those in the middle to the back of the pack (unfortunately I'm included in this one this year), had a much better chance of avoiding the wrecks that happen. We could see through the corner much better and had time to react and adjust.
That being said, please fight the urge to rebut those opinions that are dissenting to yours. You asked for opinions and people will give them. You don't have to argue your side every time someone offers a different view.
You learn more from the "nays" than the "yays". |
Thank you for your input Andy.
Like you, I was ~3/4 back in the pack I totally agree with you that the curbs were extremely helpful especially in the 1st lap while everyone worked out their position and were able to see around the corners much better and had time to react and adjust.
My responses we not intended to re-butt but to better explain the curbing "lip" function and intention. You are correct in saying "You learn more from the "nays" than the "yays"".
Thank you again everyone for your well intentioned input and opinions! Keep them coming.
Carry on... 
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Ken Schilling
#21x / S4 / ProKart Challenge (PKC)
SKUSA Data Administrator
Good luck is where preparation and opportunity meet!!!
The opinions I express are mine alone and do not reflect those of any organization of which I am a member. |
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TJ Koyen
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1422
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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There's something intense and fun about trying to get close the inside barrier and all that, but the curbing was safer, easier to see around, and I liked it a lot.
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Tim Koyen
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 1556
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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As a spectator, tuner, and guy buying the parts, I really liked the curbs. You could see more of the action, took less hits off the barriers, and you still had some crazy pass attempts right over the top of them.
Some Tag Masters guy even put 3 wheels inside the turn one curbing and nearly got the photographer, which probably wasn't a well thought out maneuver. It was a mid-packer and I can't recall his name, but he did have guts.
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