December fast track

Joe Ricard · Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: December fast track

Discuss amongst yourselves. KM and qualified young drivers.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Vernon Head · Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject:

I don't know. There's a lot of wiggle room. What exactly is extensive Junior experience? The parents are going to just say "yes, plenty of experience" and "I forgot to bring the license" to the Safety Steward, who can overlook all requirements anyway from the way it is worded. What about the age? Birth Certificate? Unless it's Nationals any kid that looks 15 will be able to run regardless of any of the requirements. Huge legal/insurance implications if there is an injury and the kid turns out to be underage.

Brian Garfield · Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject:

If you forget to bring your driver's license, you're not allowed to drive at an SCCA Solo event.

If you forget to bring your SCCA Competition license, and you don't have a driver's license, you're not allowed to drive in K Modified at an SCCA Solo event.

Brian

Scott Boito · Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject:

I had nothing to do with the proposal - it's actually been tossed around for awhile. We did discuss last meeting and I agree with the proposal.

I think the way it's worded is fairly specific, with some leeway given to the SSS. I think that's a legit way to word it.

For local events, presumably the SSS will already be very familiar with the young'un, so the decision will be where it should be.

For National events, there are several SSSs (man that's a lot of esses) and I would expect that amongst the crowd at least one will know the 15 yr old from prior National events in junior karts.

We're not talking about a kid who might run an occasional National event and few locals. These are kids who have been running in Junior karts for years AND have a license with a national reach. Pretty few people meet this criteria now, but more are expected in the coming years with the junior program in full swing for these last 8 years.
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BetterOffRacing
Member of the SCCA KAC

Vernon Head · Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject:

I don't like the fact that it's up to the discretion of the SSS. Some will run a tight ship, but I think many won't really pay much attention, or be easily persuaded by the parents, or may just think it really doesn't matter. That part of the rule should be removed.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:00 am Post subject:

We had a JC kid show once, talked to the dad several weeks prior and he assured me the kid was experienced.

Come AX day they showed up late 1st tip, then the youngin was walking the course telling my son and I that his kart can go 50 MPH. 2nd tip. Getting to start was a bit well Rolling Eyes

3rd tip.

Luckily for me the little comer ran like crap and would only barely get off the line. the driver lifted each time he turned the wheel.

But on the flip side we are talking about putting a kid in a shifter even if it's and 80cc. Unless your initials are JG this ain't gonna happen.

reviewing our young drivers from the sprint track I don't think any of them would be OK in a shifter. I guess MAYBE a certain Rotax Junior driver 14 1/2 yrs old and fast as crap. He gets 200 laps a week.
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Vernon Head · Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:57 am Post subject:

Someone with a 15-year-old probably started the ball rolling on this rule change. And the "requirement" of racing experience is a way of appeasing the SEB. I'm not sure it will work, however, since SCCA's insurance company would also have to approve. I'm sure that there are plenty of good young shifter drivers out there, and I wouldn't want to deny them a chance at driving the class.

Weight could be a problem, however. Just like KML. Laughing

Brian Garfield · Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject:

Vernon, are you aware that a 14yr old from Iowa can show up with a Learner's Permit and drive a CAR at Nationals? Or a 14.5yr old from Michigan?

Are you aware that holding a Learner's Permit does not require ANY driving experience?

Brian

Vernon Head · Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject:

Hey Brian,

So that 14-year-old has to have a parent/guardian/instructor.

I see your point, but my opinion (it's free and worth every penny) is that if you are responsible enough to get a driver's license you are ready for KM and it's higher speeds.

Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving.

Joe Ricard · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:59 am Post subject:

Slight change of subject but still fastrack
50 ft to hard objects. the Safety paragraph seems to explain that 50 ft is not a hard rule but rather a point of concern for the SSS and Event chair.

I guess if the course designer takes this light pole into consideration then closer passes could be OK. As in which way will vehicle go if they lose control.

Just don't ever remember reading it like that. I have seen SCCA Kart vids where solid objects appear to be pretty close sometimes.

What does the rest of the karters think?
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Arrow AX-8/ Rotax Sr.

Larry MacLeod · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:08 am Post subject:

Brian,

What state's permit allows a 14-year old to drive without a passenger? National Solo events don't currently permit passengers, so the permit would have to be valid for use without one.

Larry
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F125 #196
Old Birel/ hodgepodge Honda CR125
Lefty Funk
Detroit Region

Brian Garfield · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:41 am Post subject:

Passengers are always permitted at local events. National events permitted passengers for the first time in 2012.

Iowa is 14.

Edit: National events permit passengers ONLY for the purpose of an underage driver with a Learner's permit.

Brian

Alan Sheidler · Joined: 09 Aug 2001 Posts: 471

This subject is hilarous.

We all know that the kid at the heart of this issue is Julian Garfield.

God love that kid, he is the epitome of a racer from the age of 8 or earlier... no matter who is afraid of losing to him, I have this to say:

Hell, I am 45+ years his senior, and if he beats me I will not be at all unhappy, because the talent is legitimate, and in the end it is all that counts.

I have competed with Brian and Lisa for many years, but that has no bearing here. At the center of the issue is whether a holder of a Nationally recoginized competition license should be held from competing in the open class of Solo by virtue of age or eligibility for a state driver's license. I am LMAO! If any kid is far enough into his or her competition career to hold a W2W racing venue license before attaining the legal age for driving on public roads, why not let the kid autocross with adults?

Looking at the overall view of SCCA Solo from above, the number 1 control is always safety. Any kid that pushes hard enough to get a competition license can pass that maturity litmus test by any metric I can think of.

This is a good thing. One more good driver ahead of me at Nationals does not bother me in the least, no matter what his or her age in calendar years. It is an earned spot, not an honorarium.

Alan
(The FOG in KM at 62 for 2013)

Christian Hubbell · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject:

I'm with Alan. If it passes, look for him and I to head out to another early East coast Pro Solo. Might be our last chance to ever beat Julian in a shifter Very Happy

Robbie Nelson · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 132

IMO it's a dumb rule to have different age requirements based on one's state of residence. I never realized that was the case.

I have zero issues with a youngster with a W2W competition license to race in KM. Bring it on! If I can lose to Alan, I see no reason why I can't also lose to Julian.

I don't think requiring a W2W license is necessarily the best approach to this though. What about having some sort of log book requirement with National approval to move to KM? Just a thought...