Going to 2 cycle

[Michael Knauf]

Been running 4 cycle for the last 2 years since I got into karting...

Not seeing much turnout at the track for 4 cycle and I can't stomach the costs for National racing so I decided to try pipe for next year.

I've gotten some good advice from the veterans at the track but going to two strokes is like starting over again, everything is different.

As of now my plan is to buy a used, fresh motor from Laukaitis (recommended by our two cycle rep), a patriot 3 disc clutch, and L2 pipe.

Knowing nothing really about two cycle what else should I be doing to get prepared. The kart is not an issue... the motors are. I don't want to smoke a fresh $1100 engine.

What kind of oils should I look into? Builder recommended or go out on my own? A co-worker was a dealer for Motul and has a whole case of 23k RPM rated kart oil, ester based. I was reading castor oil is better but causes carbon. Not sure here...

Carb Tuning? I see KT guys twidling the mixture knob now and again going down the straight but I know nothing about this, 4 cycles you just go LOL... do you adjust by CHT?

Do I need to use special high octane race gas?

How many revs do you turn with a pipe engine and keep it alive for the season?

I'm going to be bugging Laukaitis and some local guys but I'm fishing right now.
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Mike

[David Cole]

Hi Michael,

Where do you race?
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David Cole
News Desk Manager
eKartingNews.com
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[Michael Knauf]

Avon NY
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Mike

[Dan Haynes]

We never ran a pipe but ran the Yamaha Jr. can for 3 or 4 years. We used 108 octane fuel with 4oz. per gallon Burris Blend and 4 oz. of Burris castor. In our Leopard we run straight 8oz. of Burris castor so I'm not sure that equal amounts are that important. My advice is to follow Laukaitis' advice.

As far as carb settings, they should give you some baseline settings. Start there and keep it a little on the rich side until you get the hang of it. We used a CHT sensor on the Yamaha and a ballpark number was 300* plus ambient temperature. We spun our motors to about 14,400. You might see higher temps if you are spinning yours higher. Read the plug to see if you need to go richer or leaner. With enough experience you will be able to tune by ear and adjust on track as you need it.

I have heard that you can get away with much lower octane but have never tried it. I suggest following the builders advice on this.
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Blaise Haynes
#3 Arrow X1-CIK
TaG
Cook Racing Engines Parilla Leopard

[John Mulvihill]

Ditto on Dan.
you don't go exceptionally rich, carbon build-up won't be excessive.

Tons of info on here. Do a search on anything Yamahama and you'll get an answer.

John
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I bowl overhand..........

[Dan Rudd]

Hey Mike,

All of what you're asking has been hit on many times in the past. A search of this site will give you volumes of good info. And Kent will also be someone you're going to want to listen to closely when it comes to tuning.

We've run Yamaha for several years and have had good success. We've run Blendzall Racing Caster and have been completely satisfied. I was a little concerned about carbon build up when I was getting teched at MIS last month because I had a fair amount of time on the engine but we passed with flying colors.

We have a couple different carbs and they tune differently. A real ballpark setting will be around 2 ish on the low and 1/8th ish on the high. Thats just a generalization, yours may be different. Like has been previously mentioned, start rich and tune from there. Although we fire our motor up at 1L for ease of starting.

Exhaust gas temp (EGT) is the way to tune on the fly. CHT is not the way to go. Too slow, too many variables, etc.

As for fuel, we have gone to almost straight race fuel. Not due to the octane requirements (because you don't need high octane in a low compression motor) but rather due to all the additives in pump gas. If you're racing somewhere that techs fuel, you can be sure that pump gas will fail.
Enjoy!


Dan

[Michael Knauf]

Thanks for the pointers guys. I've been reading a lot... some of it honestly I don't like what I read LOL... but I guess there is no perfect kart motor.

I've talked to Kent a few times... still need more info from him but right now I'm trying to figure out this clutch thing...

I've read that some people have had trouble with the patriot for pipe and it seems to be getting the right engagement.

I'm going to keep reading and talk to them and see if there are any quick solutions to this if it becomes an issues... obviously stiffer springs would be great but I don't know that they are readily available for this clutch.
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Mike

[Greg Wright]

[Michael Knauf]

Greg,

I have no doubt that a lot of these horror stories I have read are the result of the user. That is why I am trying to do my hw.

Buy junk, you get junk. Don't know how to use it or maintain it, you break it.

First hand I've seen most guys at our track have great success with the KT. It seems when someone breaks something they are quick to blame the engine or clutch rather than something they did.

Right now I'm trying to sort the facts from the fiction. I spent half a year learning about karting and putting together my first 4 cycle kart before I even hit the track. I won the first series I ran in and made huge strides even then. The amount of speed and knowledge I picked up from my first practice to my last race was astounding.

I'm ready to do it all over again
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Mike

[Brian Mead]

Micheal - Your going to have a blast with the yammidog. Slip the clutch to 10200,On the carb, don't open the high very much, open the low alot. You'll be fine. If you stick it, a ring and piston won't break you, ship your cylinder with the old piston to Kent, I'm sure he'll cut you another one and you can put it back together yourself. Ask who your running against about flex and gear, they'll help. Glad to see pipe classes being run. You won't regret the change.

[Michael Knauf]

Yeah I am excited.

I am actually going to start off driving with the can first. I'm going to get a 'pipe' motor and switch back and forth depending on what track I am at.

But mainly I want to learn to set the carb, clutch and drive a 2 cycle engine before I go all out for power.

I know what good drivers can run with a can at Avon, so once I can match or get close to that I'll step up to the pipe.

I'll probably get as much info as I can from Kent about the engine setup and do rebuilds myself. When it comes time for major machine work I'll send it back to him. But I can get pistons cut locally and change them, rings and gaskets myself.
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Mike

[Walt Gifford]

Crossing over from can to pipe and back requires careful clutch selection. The Tomar TD23-3 is a good compromise. It will be a little heavy for can and a little light for pipe on certain tracks but you can get away with it if you know what you're doing with gearing and stall speed. Allot depends on how hard your track is on clutches which is why you'll hear different stories about what works and what don't. Also, always run 11th if you can, only use 10th if you can't make the gear ratio you want.

Gif
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FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician
Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001
Yamaha KT100 Service Center
40 years karting experience

[Michael Knauf]

Funny you say that...

I was planning on trying the patriot but I have done a lot of reading and the Tomar seems more adept to tuning for both classes.

As far as the 11T, I don't know there? I'd be running some monster rear gears to make it work on the tracks here.

That's one I'm going to have to ask more experienced guys on...
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Mike

[Sean Kisselbach]

[Brian Mead]

Yes I do. Call some shops, you'll get the same number plus or minus a few hundred rpm. Slipping the clutch that low in the pipe classes, your leaving an awful lot on the table. Try it. If you don't like it, you can always back it down to where you had it before.