chilly premix

Gerry MacNutt · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: chilly premix

So I want to test in a few weeks and here on the wet coast it look like temps may around 35 to 40 deg. F so I'm worried about running 927 in the CR250 based on what the label is saying and this from the Dumonde Tech site:

*All brands of castors manufactured may drop out of fuels when temperatures reach below 50 Deg. F

So what is the best cold weather premix oil to run that won't separate at temps close to freezing?

Ian Harrison · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject:

Hi Gerry

A modern Fully Synthetic race oil will stay mixed, with no problem

Not sure what you guys get over there, but ELF 909 HTX is a good one and it does have a touch of castor.

Best Regards

Ian Very Happy

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Riley Will · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject:

Motul 800
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Tim Doll · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject:

Gerry

I used to run Tech castor exclusively (I switched to Burris Castor a few years back due to the lower deposits), running with ERC I never had an issue with it separating (and it snowed at one of our races Shocked

).

However, when I went back to Road America and ran their track fuel (don't recall what it was), it separated on a June overnight.

You can pretty well check by looking if it separated, but if you're really worried a good synthetic would be an alternative.

Tim
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Mark Jauregui · Joined: 20 Apr 2004 Posts: 183

We used to have issues with the mix separating at Reno Fernley when it got cold and just added 1 oz. of acetone per gallon of fuel.
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Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:27 am Post subject:

al nunley · Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 3037

Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject:

al nunley · Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 3037

[quote="Chris Reinhardt"]
I think what most people found out is that if they were pushing the limit of a synthetic premix oil to the point where it was burning off, they were too lean and losing power anyway....
[I don’t know about “most people” but we always ran the EGT and if we got the least bit lean, we could tell very quickly. Don’t assume it was just because we didn’t know what we were doing. I can assure you, we, and the other driver I spoke of, knew what we were doing. It’s kind of insulting to suggest anything else.
When you’re running at the limits, bean oil is the only thing to run./quote]
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Chris Reinhardt · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject:

Take her easy there bucko, I wasn't suggesting any such thing....

If you enjoy castor and that's your bag, good for you.....

CR
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Ian Harrison · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:38 am Post subject:

Hi Al

I don't know how long ago it was that you were running synthetics, but they have come on in leaps and bounds over the last 3 years. The latest oils using Esther Tech Technology have exceptional film strength. Having said that we always run right at the limit (you have to with unleaded) and I can't think the last time I had a simple ring stick due to gumming on either a single or twin.

My personal bias is to use a castor (Castrol A747 was always my favourite) with leaded fuels and a high quality Esther Tech synthetic like Putoline RS959 or ELF HTX909 with unleaded.

But these days and with the discontinuation of 747, I will be using the above synthetics in all instances.

I was brought up breathing Castrol R40 fumes out of the 4-strokes and R30 out of the 2-strokes. Nothing to beat that aroma!!

Best Regards

Ian Very Happy

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Championship winning Superkart race team 1997-2012

al nunley · Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 3037

Nice to hear from our friends from across the pond.
I wonder if film strenth has any effect on the oil cooking, creating a slugge, that sticks the ring in the ring grove? Not like sticking the piston. There is no aluminum wipe over the ring. And it seems to happen after a heat, in the pits as the engine cools. Then, next heat, no power. Come in, check the compression, and it’s very low. Pull the barrel and you see all the muck with the ring stuck in the piston ring grove. The barrel is just fine. New piston and ring, castor oil, next heat, all better. Same EGT peak.
Do you use an EGT?
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If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)
All else being equal; Compression is the Holy Grail.
45 years, in and around karting

Ian Harrison · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:55 am Post subject:

Hi Al

Never seen anything like you describe when running a synthetic even years ago. Perhaps it's the brand you are using??!!

All clean as a whistle all the time and never a sign of any gum whatsoever????

Yes we run EGT sensors on our AIM loggers. On the Honda CR250 singles we site the probe at 150mm from the piston face measured along the top of the port.

See attached data from Donington Park. As you can see the max EGT is related to the peak speed of 124.6mph and 11,390 rpm (as always slight damping delay)

Google tells me that 726 degrees Celsius is 1338.8 degrees F. As I say we always run on the edge (where esle is there?) Laughing

Just pulled the cylinder off a motor that has done a weekends racing using Putoline RS959 Synthetic. Cylinder was never lifted all weekend. Clean as a whistle. Wink

Best Regards

Ian Very Happy

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ted dale · Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 611

Ian looks like a worn rubber. And the other end needs sharpening. Laughing

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Ian Harrison · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:06 am Post subject:

Wondered what that unusual smell was, Ted.

Thanks for the heads-up!! Laughing

Best Regards

Ian Very Happy

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+44 161 343 2009
Championship winning Superkart race team 1997-2012