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Larry MacLeod
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 299
Location: United States, Michigan, Ypsilanti
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 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim Walsh wrote: | | and but for autocross, a stock moto engine is actually a hindrance. |
I would partially disagree. If you're a top driver, then a mod-moto is the probably what you need to go from 3rd to 1st. But if you're still running mid-pack, then the engine performance isn't your problem.
If you already have a stock moto, don't spend any money until you are good enough to "drive" yourself into the trophies at Nationals.
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F125 #196
Old Birel/ hodgepodge Honda CR125
Lefty Funk
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George Vorrilas
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 228
Location: United States, Massachusetts,
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: Best Engine |
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Tim, There are a number of car clubs up in the Northeast that run autocrosses, ( non SCCA sanctioned Solo events) and the Stock moto is both legal, and does just fine. I am not saying that they have the performance of an ICC, but if looking to run a handful of "local autocrosses" and regular sprint races in our area it would be a great choice. In addition, the Northeast Shifter Series now has a stock moto class. Jake runs sprint races on a regular basis in a TaG and considering the available venues in the Northeast, I my eyes, the Stock Moto would be a good choice to run both the club autocrosses and regular sprint series. As always, there are different opinions any time someone wants to know "what's best"
Jake, your still welcome to swing by and take one of Alex's moto motors to try.  |
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Tim Walsh
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 64
Location: United States, North Carolina, Winston-Salem
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Best Engine |
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| George Vorrilas wrote: | ...Jake runs sprint races on a regular basis in a TaG and considering the available venues in the Northeast, I my eyes, the Stock Moto would be a good choice to run both the club autocrosses and regular sprint series. As always, there are different opinions any time someone wants to know "what's best"
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Then please ignore my advice. Running a Stock Moto on track and at an autocross sounds like a good idea. My local track (CMP) has only an open shifter class. Run what you've got @405 no matter what 125cc it is.
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1382
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jason said:
| Quote: | ICCs have less torque but have a broader power band at a higher overall RPM up to about 14k
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15K+ and as much or more torque (mod moto) when tuned to KZ homologation specs.
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Tom Barth
http://www.greenflagkarting.com/
Power is good...more power is better... too much power is just right! |
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Joe Ricard
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 872
Location: United States, Mississippi,
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:27 am Post subject: |
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ADD version of Tom's Post.
Just throw money at it.
I have sent him some money and my kart is much faster. when it comes time for a rebuild my RVS will certainly go to his shop.
Right now my motor is still way faster than I can drive it. so refer back to the other post driving style.
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Jason Vehige
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: United States, Tennessee, Nashville
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Ricard wrote: | ADD version of Tom's Post.
Just throw money at it.
I have sent him some money and my kart is much faster. when it comes time for a rebuild my RVS will certainly go to his shop.
Right now my motor is still way faster than I can drive it. so refer back to the other post driving style. |
I cannot disagree more... the only thing I have spent on my motor program beyond maintenance is time tuning (ok ok I have tried a few different types of reeds/stiffeners).... thats the best part of the ICC package is that tuning alone gets you a large majority of the results, I am making much more out of my motors today than 3 years ago... all on tuning. IMHO its 90% tune and 10% blueprinting the motor to maximum ICC/KZ spec. In Autocross you don't need that last 10% until your driving is at the top level.
Don't just throw money at it... learn how to get the most of what you already have.... trust me no one hops in my kart and complains about the lack of power or drive ability 
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Jason Vehige
08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204 |
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Alan Sheidler
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason Vehige wrote: |
.... trust me no one hops in my kart and complains about the lack of power or drive ability |
Hehehe... Jason, anyone at all who gets a ride in a shifter kart and complains about anything at all other than maybe being a little sore, is an ungrateful SOB!  |
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Pax Rolfe
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Best engine? I'm hoping it's the Yamaha because that's what I'm getting. Paging Mr Noah Stark, Mr Stark please report to the NEOKLA region SCCA stat! 
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Pax
Tulsa, OK |
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1382
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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I was fortunate enough to attend the Superkart Nationals at Las Vegas last November. Trust me when I say "there is not a moto engine on the planet that will touch a competition KZ engine". Even I, a 'died in the wool' kart engine enthusiast was overwhelmed.
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Tom Barth
http://www.greenflagkarting.com/
Power is good...more power is better... too much power is just right! |
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Joe Ricard
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 872
Location: United States, Mississippi,
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Tom, were these lease only engines?
if so they won't do us parking lot racers much good.
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1382
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I assume that the KZ class engines were pretty much all Tec Sav lease (4000 euros) engines. But remember most of these guys were from outside the U.S. and were going for the big bucks. There was also a G1 class that was all KZ but using mostly local power plants.
I also was fortunate enough to talk with the Tec Sav guys. They gave me a lot of good info.
I will not get into detail here because I am a passionate believer in the KZ engine as the absolutely best choice for a shifter kart power plant. I do not want to start rumors and such about the high cost of a racing KZ engine.
I will say this. There is room for improvement to the KZ but it is within the average karter's budget too. This improvement is the result of bringing the engine up to the homologation specifications.
I will give readers a sketch of what areas are important:
1. cylinder - port work
2. intake - parts replacement
3. carburetor - correct jetting
optional - crankcase bearings & piston modification
All the above is again, within Joe Karter's budget
BUT ----- a well tuned engine is only good for .5/1.0 seconds. A well driven well set up chassis is worth 2/3 seconds.
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Tom Barth
http://www.greenflagkarting.com/
Power is good...more power is better... too much power is just right! |
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Ted Visscher
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 10
Location: United States, Tennessee, Knoxville
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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W2W racing in a parking lot. http://www.superkartsusa.com/national/skusa-supernationals.html
I looked through the results but not knowing what all mods in each class along with what tires and weights were run for each class, hard to compare just the motors.
Adjusting the loose nut at the steering wheel makes the best improvement in times.. Paul Russell with a junk yard dirt bike motor would still beat a bunch of folks.
::edit:: I forgot different skusa classes have different weights |
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Tom Barth
Joined: 22 Oct 2001
Posts: 1382
Location: United States, Michigan, Waterford
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Jason Vehige
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: United States, Tennessee, Nashville
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: |
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They both look like a hell of a lot of fun to me 
BTW .... For 2012 SCCA has ICC/KZ at the same weight as Mod Moto (PI).... The Motos w stock ign get a weight break
We all get along in our little autocross world....
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Jason Vehige
08 Gillard Charlotte / SGM sl204
05 Vanspeed Sirio / SGM sl204 |
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