SPrint shifter bodywork

[Charlie Tackett]

Until only a couple of short years ago, SKUSA was only one class.

Erik, those were my comments, not Ted's....don't worry, though, even in person some people mistake us for the other.

Oh and Don, that littl crotchrocket you saw Ted on is 10+yrs old....and it is *mine*, not Ted's! Even us old farts got to have some fun!!!!!

Oh and Marc...Ted is concerned as to whether the bare frame class refers to the kart or the driver!

[Erik Frank]

Charlie,
Oops! Mea Culpa. I guess I had a "freudian slip" and wrote "Ted" because I guess he's the one doing the driving!

Thanks to the features of Ultimate BBS, I have corrected the erroneous nomenclature.

-erik

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Erik Frank ]

[Bill Pyles]

I race 125 sit up on the west coast (CIK bodywork)and in the midwest, where "full" bodywork is allowed. Like anything else, there are pros and cons to both configurations.
My midwest friends insist that "full" bodywork, i/e. big nose, sid pods and belly pan are safer and allow "better" racing because the draft is somewhat less important than when running the relatively dirty (aerodynamically) CIK bodywork that creates a huge draft effect. They say that CIK bodywork is like restrictor racing. The full bodywork cars are certainly faster in a straight line, but I can tell you that you will have to do some additional chassis tuning when you bolt on the bodywork---it changes the handling!

On the other hand, CIK bodywork is an international standard, and the U.S. would do well to follow more "world" standards if karting is to be considered by the world as a viable motorsports stepping stone. Otherwise, U.S. karting is, according to world standards, sort of an outlaw hobbyist sport---but that's OK too I guess.

I like CIK bodywork because the kart is a lot easier to work on--no bodywork to remove if you want to work on the front brakes or do an alignment in the field etc. CIK bodywork is cheap and its use does have an equalizing effect on the karts, which places a premium on driving/drafting strategy, particularly on very high speed tracks such as willow Springs.

All that said, in my imaginary world, I wish the entire U.S. would run the same bodywork rules coast to coast, whether its CIK or open, anything-goes bodywork. Let's just pick one set of rules. One of karting's shortcomings is the "boutique" approach to class stucture---which allows for so many local options that are designed to try to keep as-many-as-possible permutations of the kart configuration viable, at the risk of creating dozens of classes with 3 entries per class---that's a whole'nother discussion.

Bill Pyles, San Jose, CA

[Charlie Tackett]

CIK is indeed the INternational standard.....in sprint racing! Very few other countries have long track racing. THose that do....well check out some of the inverted bathtubs with wings and fins you see in the 125 long track kerts from some other countries. Seems full...and I mean full, bodywork is the norm for long track racing in other countries.

[Charlie Tackett]

CIK is the international norm ...for sprint racing! WHhile not all that many other ****ries have long track racing, check out some of their sites and some of the inverted bathtubs with fins and wings they run on their 125 road racers(and these are sit-up chassis, not laydowns)! Seems most everywhere else, full, and I mean full, bodywork is the norm for long track 125.

I would disagree with the statement that CIK makes it more of a drivers race. IN fact I would say that it is just the opposite. With CIK, you can go through the tight twisty sections...that require driver skill and pull out a 5-10 kart lead onto a straight and the guys you just *drove* away from can team up and run you down by the time you are have way down the straight, the effect of drafting is so much greater. That IMHO, negates ones driving ability. I've seen a two kart draft work and get a 15sec lead befoer and have one of them drop out and the poor guy left out there to hang gets run down by a 3-4 drafting group in no time flat!

While the same does occur with bodywork karts, the drafting effect of a group of CIK karts is so significantly better than that the aero dynamics of a single kart, that it can negate a single drivers ability. Hence, my comparisonm to restrictor plate racing. With bodywork, the effect of a group draftin is greater than a single kart, it is nowhere near as effective as with CIK karts. CIK reduces the driver component, IMHO.

[Marc Miller]

I agree with Charlie-

I just got back from Gateway a few weeks ago and after looking at split times, there was only one kart that was within a .7 of me from turn 2 to the exit of the hairpin when running alone... but when you have nearly a mile of straightaway and 20 karts lengths behind someone.. you can run 5-7 mph faster running them down setting fast lap. I set fast lap at Gateway and didn't win.. but I only set fast lap because I was 20 kart lengths back goin into 1, used my infield advantage, then drafted by down the chute and used the draft...

Do I feel that this is unfair? No at all.. it is part of racing. Mark Martin cries more about restricter racing than any other Cup driver, but then again, his program suffers on those tracks. I am right there with those that just want a set of rules to follow and then we ALL do it.... so you can show up and know your stuff is legal before you get there and you have some "Hitler" of a tech guy making you trim something 1/8" or set tethers on something or drill a hole in bolts. It is a strain on my time and a pain in the but for any newcomer.

Marc Miller

[Erik Frank]

Geez. Now we're splitting hairs. To me, sounds like there really isn't as much difference between bodywork as I orginally thought. CIK or not, bottom line, as long we're all out there racing...and having FUN! I think for the driver, the racing is going to be just as much fun with or without the bathtub.

From this discussion, it sounds to me like the perfect 125cc long track is a medium length track (<2.0 mi) with maybe a 95 mph "straight" with lots of turns, elevation changes, and good braking zones. With maybe just a "tick" of drafting. Hey, sounds a lot like racing at Oak Hill!


BTW, I was rummaging around my attic last night and found a full bodywork nose for my kart...

rub-a-dub-dub,
-erik

[Ardy Sadeghi]

Many years ago (early 90s) I ran the 125 with cik for one year. then it was a nose cone and the next year I had the grand illusion of a full body, fully belly pan, etc. took many weeks and nights, missed 2 races before I finally ran the kart. took another 3 races to get the handling. ofcourse it never was as good as it was with cik. eventually it looked nice enough and ran ok, but was a pain to work on. If I were to do it again, I might only try it with a nose cone. the bottom line, why not let the karters decide? this is not an entry level class. if some one wants to run cik, why not. if they want to put a nose cone, why not. and if they want to go thru the pain of a full body, let them. for years many of us in the mid-states tried to make sure the 125 class remained intact. once in a while there were cries of light, heavy, medium structure.. a while back we even had some skusa drivers screaming for advanced and entry level class structures. fortunately, our local enduro clubs were talked out of it. As a result, most of our local enduro clubs enjoy an average of 30-40 125 karters in our events. and these are not skusa events, nor are they national events, they are local enduro events. That benefits the karters and helps our local enduro clubs and enduro racing in general to pay the bills. Please don't break up our classes any more!

[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: Ardy Sadeghi ]

[ August 07, 2001: Message edited by: Ardy Sadeghi ]

[Bob Chiras]

A desired solution to the shifter arguments would be to have the organizations , SKUSA, IKF, WKA and all others who want to participate to hold an event. You have to run the rules of the organization which you choose to represent.

Select a facility of 3/4 to 1 mile in length. No advantage to the road race guys over the sprint racers. 30 minute main race no need to stop for fuel but a need to manage the tires.

See what and who gets on the podium and then let the democratic process decide and see what shows up for next years event. Over a few years the arguments will be settled and there really will be a national champion.

I bet the rules will also get settled to be a lot closer that they are today.

If stock ignitions, spec tires and CIK body work made the podium the arguments would be over for me.

[Charlie Tackett]

I agree, Bob except for one thing...change the track length to a minimum2 miles. We are talking about road racing here, why have a comparison on a sprint track and give the sprinters the advantage?? Sorry, doesn't make sense to me. No more sense than taking all the IKF/SKUSA/WKA sprint series drivers out to Road America for a comparison, etc.