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  • #46754

    andy-graham
    Participant

    yes you’re right, the seat strut is definitely not gonna work after looking closer…I’d bet it mounts to that chassis rail under that runs under the axle….as I understand, the chassis was never homologated and was only available in Canada…but I promise ya, the guy was flyin around Orlando circuit on it.

     

    #46747

    andy-graham
    Participant

    http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFg1NzY=/z/FeEAAOSwrklVCDYQ/$_27.JPG

    This is the CRG 4 stroke specific chassis…notice the frame design and seat strut.  I saw a PSL backed driver pilot this chassis with the 206 at the FWT 2014 at Orlando, known as a “drivers track”.  Howd he do? he lapped the field in every race.

    #46684

    andy-graham
    Participant

    do I hear $450?……

    #46678

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Steen — they use the same gasket and PV housing, so the hole is still there..we put one on as an upgrade, so I assumed it still had some pressure activation, but you’re right, the new PV is controled by an electronic solenoid, so not really sure…

     

    #46669

    andy-graham
    Participant

    there are several issues that cause the ecu to limit at 12500…see if you can download the manual and it will guide you through a bunch of trouble shooting…I’d almost bet money that you have the gasket between the cylinder and powervalve housing on upside down…theres a hole in the gasket that has to align with the hole in the housing and the cylinder, that’s the pressure feed for the power valve…if its blocked off, the power valve wont work and you’ll limit at 12500…the new power valve has a ground wire thats attached or unattached to change the rpms at where it opens, might want to chase that also…easy to check the PV gasket though and rule that out hopefully

     

    #46612

    andy-graham
    Participant

    seems the birels work well…they’re in the promo video on the briggs site racing

    I know of someone here in FL that runs the one of the newer kosmics

    from what I’ve heard and seen, the CRG 4 stroke chassis is very good and the arrow AX9 4S is also a good one

    Victory Kart also makes a good chassis for the 206

    #46603

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Thanks Mr T, I was really hoping you’d see this post….I’ll pm you my phone # and you can call me about where you’re at over at the Beach. …always wondered why there were not many if any 4 stroke sprint chassis at the track….think I found out why….and true, if anybody knows kosmics and Briggs, its you….how’s Corey’s wrists coming along?

    And appreciate the offer once again Gary, I’ll pm you with some details of what I’ve got and where I’m at….I think you hear the frustration, and it’s an ego killer to just quit a project for me…but like you said, might be where I’m at, so quit the whine and cheese party and move on.

    #46583

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Exactly Steve, how much will that chassis be worth after you’ve cut on it?  Right now the kosmic I have has some value, albeit not a bunch, but it would be worthless if I started cutting and grinding on it…dont want to do that, and damn sure don’t want to put more $ into an almost 10 yr old chassis.

     

    #46581

    andy-graham
    Participant

    actually Jimbo, we did talk at length when I was considering getting into this ;-)…as for the mount, again, according to the article on this website about the 16 things LO206 owners need to know, it clearly says more than 3/4″ offset motor is no good…how do you just blow off the manufacturer’s warnings?

    As for the chassis, you’re right, we’re not “striving for the best of the best.”  If we were, I wouldn’t be posting this, I wouldve just bought a chassis built for this type of power plant, but I dont have that kind of expendable budget and have other family needs that are higher on the priority list than a 4 stroke specific chassis.   We’re just chasing some good memories not championships and trophies, and trying to use what we have…..I thought that’s what this program was all about — getting those old karts out of mothballs and back to the track, not being, “the best of the best.”….guess I was wrong….

    #46579

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Gary, I appreciate you’re willingness to help, however between the 4 motor mounts I have — a burris, a mega mount, an expensive odenthal and a cheap aluminum one off of ebay — and the three clutches I have — a Noram, a Max Torque and a Premier– nothing will align properly….with the clutch inboard the third bearing carrier is in the way and I dont want to start cutting off  chassis pieces.  With the clutch outboard the chain rubs the drivers right seat strut, BAD….damned no matter what I try…..I’ve thrown too much $$$ at this project already, I think it’s just time to retire it and move on….let it be some else’s headache….anybody looking for a 206?

    #46570

    andy-graham
    Participant

    and hey Jimbo — I have one of your motors I was hoping to run, I’ve heard you do a nice job of setting them up and getting them competitive

    #46567

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Ha, really?  So you think I’m an industry insider who’s posted this as an attempt to throw a wrench in a nationally growing program….wow…..Well, I’m not, in fact I’m far from it.  Matter of fact, Jimbo, you and I talked at length when I was first considering getting into the 4 stroke thing.

    We’re not chasing any championships, in fact we’ve (my son and I) never entered an event.  We’re just some regular people who got into karting a few years ago when I decided I couldnt ride mx anymore and was looking for something to fill the speed fix that mx provided me…..with a public park/sprint track in our home town, we thought it made sense so we decided to give it a try.

    The first kart I bought was an old CRG cadet with a 2002 mini max on it for my son, so we stepped in using the 2 stroke engine that was available to us, and it served us well…now he’s too big for cadet chassis at 12 and needs a full sized roller.   I picked up a friends old chassis (the kosmic mentioned in the first post) about 18 months ago thinking  I could use it for my son when he was ready, hoping that he’d still be interested and we’d still be going driving by that time.

    We never have been able to dedicate enough time to driving, so its strictly been a hobby for both of us over the past few years, and I thought the 206 would be a good transition for him moving from mini max into a full sized chassis.  I’m not downing the program, I’m pointing out that I made the mistake of believing that it (putting one of these engines on a sprint chassis) was just “that” easy, and it’s definitely not, and it takes some serious research or it will cost you, just like anything in karting….a few of you have mentioned cutting and removing or replacing certain parts of the chassis….that’s would ruin any value the chassis has, and I’m not gonna throw money at modifying a nearly 10 yr old chassis, that makes no sense.

    I’ve spoken with a few chassis tuners who have worked with these engines on sprint chassis and they’ve all told me the same thing — “…Sprint kart chassis were never designed to carry those types of engines.  If you start cutting and moving things, you’ll change the handling characteristics of the kart.  If you want to run a 206, its best to buy a chassis that is designed for it, that way the balance of weight from right to left will be more consistent.  And I can assure you(as one tuner told me), there’s no chassis designer/engineer at OTK that’s thinking about a Briggs 206 on the chassis they’re designing.”  That comes straight from the mouths of respected tuners who’s names I’ll leave out of this since they need not be dragged into it.  And thinking about it, I recall watching the FWT last year at Orlando and seeing a PSL backed CRG kart walking away from the field in Briggs 206 class, looked like he had the entire field out gunned…turned out he was running a CRG chassis made specifically for the 206…that’s a drivers track, and the chassis really shined against the field there.

    As for offset, Briggs states that if the engine is offset more than 3/4″, it increases vibration in the head by as much or more than 20%, putting excessive, premature wear on the engine.  That’s straight from Briggs, not me.  Had a guy from KartSport in Mooresville tell me that they use the burris jackshaft mount on the arrow sprint chassis, but they really try to steer customers towards the arrow 4s chassis that’s designed for a 4 stroke engine…I’m pretty sure they know their stuff when it comes to the LO206 program, and I’m not about to buy a new chassis to make this “work.”

    I hold no grudges, just hate that I’m this deeply invested and have realistically made no progress.  I was ready to throw wrenches the other night, turned around to take a deep breath and calm down, looked up, and there was that mini max sitting on the shelf staring at me.  Then I realized — I could have that thing on this chassis and ready to go in Jr form in about 30 minutes, what am I doing here?!….true story

    #46516

    andy-graham
    Participant

    I was beginning to think I was the only one, Dan.  Thanks for the response, lots of adversity in 2 stroke racing right now, but we’ll be sticking with what we’ve got rather than getting in too deep with this B&S thing….somewhere, Rube Goldberg is smiling…

     

    #44872

    andy-graham
    Participant

    No one is mentioning lap times from their testing….are you any faster with the upgrades?

    #44521

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Would also consider trades for shifter chassis.

    #43927

    andy-graham
    Participant

    thanks guys….been looking for a video of a bump start, pretty sure I know what that is, just not sure if he’s physically strong enough to pull in the clutch, run and jump in while dumping the clutch….and yeah, $650 for a starter is a chunk…but then again Dr bills can add up to that quickly…

    #43058

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Jim, whats this crazy otk talk coming from a CRG guy?! :-)

     

    #40926

    andy-graham
    Participant

    sorry, it is sold

    #39165

    andy-graham
    Participant

    yes. I sent you a PM

    #39084

    andy-graham
    Participant

    Craig, with TAG classes disappearing, if u have a Max you are placed in a Max class  if there is no TAG.  Most of the tracks in my area that run Max classes run current Max Challenge rules, even at local level.

    #39050

    andy-graham
    Participant

    bump

    #39048

    andy-graham
    Participant

    I guess my post wasn’t clear…there is a group of guys here LOCALLY that have the old version Max, quite a few in fact.  Many of these guys are pretty bummed out about the upgrades and the new motor release as they wont be competitive (even with the upgrades) when up against the new evo….and most of these guys like their old Max motors, they’re rock solid and easy to work on….remember, I talking local racing, not strict RMAX rules, so no sealed motors here.

    For a few years we’ve always talked about how the Max had more to give, but the restrictions built in by rotax and their rules made those extra horses illegal….ya know, “run a 28mm slide Mikuni and Nox Box”, or a “30mm VHSH shifter carb with an open filter”, or “run the dd2 cylinder with the dd2 pipe and this size jet and MAN!”, or “…I know a guy that can reprogram the coil with a different ignition curve..”, or “ya know, if you raised the compression, lowered the ports and ran the dd2 coil, you can easy get 31-32 horsepower out of that engine…..” whatever, we’ve all heard it.

    We’ve all heard the talk, but it’s always been illegal and expensive due to the cost of Max parts…well now that there’s a new engine that has new internals along iwth new everything else, the parts for the old Max are going to be worthless if they arent already…I have several Max motors…I have dyno tuned, built max that I paid a bunch for this time last year, I cant get $1500 for it now as a complete package….another guy haggled with me over an micromax package for $700 that had the new style clutch and cylinder and a passport…check out ebay, its loaded with rotax parts…sure MaxSpeed says “run your old engine, it’ll still be legal”, but we all know that wont last.  Their goal is to move units, and ultimately they want all of us to go out and buy a new Evo.

    So, once again, people who want to participate will not be allowed to because they cant or wont buy the new “correct” engine.  My thought was to say ok fine, if you want to race your new evo there’s places to do that….if you have an old max and now with parts being cheap, why not try that 30mm carb with the other filter, or whatever.  The idea was to have a place for people who cant go and run RMAX races anymore, that’s it, not start a new money pit class.

    #38154

    andy-graham
    Participant

    and x30s are on sale right now at Italian Motors

     

    #38142

    andy-graham
    Participant

    WHAT IF —

    since Rotax says that the old version Max will continue to be legal to race (for now), what if the old engine is better suited for one circuit compared to another?

    For instance, what if the Evo dominates on horsepower tracks and the old Max looks to have an edge on shorter “parking lot style”, “driver” tracks?  Similar to what SKUSA went thru with the Leopard and the Rotax a couple of years ago which lead to death of rotax in SKUSA..so now, if this were to hold true, would it mean that teams and serious racers would need two rotax engines, the old version Max and the new Evo, to be competitive on all circuits…seeing as how we have seen no on track testing data for the new Evo, we really have no idea how this engine will perform or what gremlins may be lurking in a brand new product…it seems that no one in the World of Karting has a handle on what this new package brings to the grid considering the reactions of the New Zealand and Australian regulating bodies…it’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out

    #37342

    andy-graham
    Participant

    you need to figure all that out before you spend a dime on parts…otherwise it’ll most likely happen again and you’ll have wasted your money

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 90 total)