Home Forums General Karting Discussion Trail Brake and Throttle

This topic contains 13 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  FREDDY SANDOVAL 1 month, 1 week ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #76815

    William Weiler
    Participant

    I just got back from a Karting course at Simraceway. It was a lot of fun. Enzo and Ken are amazing instructors. Really knowledgeable, super friendly and good at giving a lot of positive feedback.

    My question is, they said do not ride the brake and throttle at the same time. Yet it is natural for me to trail brake and also keep the revs up (I stopped doing it when I noticed). Is this to protect the clutch or is it proper driving technique? I hope it isn’t a big controversy in the sport.

    #76818

    William Martin
    Participant

    I suspect it’s the clutch…you can’t make money as a “school” if the parts have to be replaced too frequently…and I don’t see a big advantage to the technique. Just hammer the gas a tiny bit earlier, and I think it works out about the same. Unless you have an engine that loves to stall!

    #76819

    Gary Lawson
    Participant

    Trail braking is not using both pedals at the same time. It is braking as you turn into a corner. Using both pedals is not good driving technique and it causes excessive wear to brakes and clutches. Not to mention building more heat in the engine.

    #76862

    Greg Wright
    Participant

    Thanks Gary you saved me from writing the same thing. I’m amazed at how many kart racers don’t understand what trail braking actually is. Your advice is spot on.

    Greg Wright
    Rapid Racing Inc.

    "When in doubt Gas it, It won't help but it ends the suspense."

    #76873

    Troy Berry
    Participant

    Gary Lawson is def the king of 4 cycle’s and his advise if golden! I have to ask because inquiring minds want to know. We have found with our Lo206 on our home track in Reno that there are a couple of spots where keeping the gas on full with a quick tap of the brakes to set up the corner seems to help. We really only have 3 braking zones on our longer layouts.  On some of the corners it seems that getting off the gas  takes the momentum out of the motor more than if we don’t. I don’t have any experience with other tracks with this kart, so maybe it’s just because of our particular track conditions. Now when we run the short track, it doesn’t work because we have some slower speed  tighter corners that require a lift off the throttle.  So I guess what I am asking is can there be exceptions to any technique? Of course I am NOT talking about trail braking in the corner, in a 4 cycle that is the kiss of death. Most braking must be finished by turn in is the general rule on a 4 cycle. It was different in my Tag, as trail braking was helpful at times with higher horsepower in higher speed sweepers. Or maybe it was just my bad technique? I do realized being on the gas and brakes at the same time builds  some heat throughout the drive train.  At the same time keeping the RPM’s up helps to get off the corner better. Karting is so cool, such a mix of Art and Science!

    "The Art is in the details"
    BirelArt AM29 LO206
    Intrepid Cruiser LO 206

    #76891

    William Weiler
    Participant

    When I said  “trail brake and also keep the revs up” I meant trail brake plus a little throttle at the same time. Read the question before jumping to show off your stuff.

     

    #76893

    Gary Lawson
    Participant

    Did I not answer your question regardless? You’re welcome

    #76895

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    Wow! I thought everybody was nice enough to answer your question, and shared why and how it could affect the equipment, I honestly didn’t see anybody showing off. I thought they, we all try to help here, and along the way we do share stories.

    I thought their input was pretty good and spot on.

    #76898

    William Weiler
    Participant

    Sorry Gary. Maybe being a little sensitive. Your advice is good.

    #76906

    TJ Koyen
    Moderator

    A little overlap in throttle and braking is acceptable. Keep in mind that for a kart to work properly, it has to flex and have some kind of torsional load through the chassis to jack weight. This means there always has to be some sort of load occurring, ie; no coasting. There should always be either some throttle or some braking happening to keep the kart ‘sprung’. This can cause some overlap in the pedals as you modulate brake and throttle. However, riding the brake and throttle can wear out clutches, brakes etc. like everyone else mentioned so any overlap in pedal input should be minimal.

    Driver/Coach/Wrench : Innovative Performance/Exprit
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    #76917

    Aaron Hachmeister
    Participant

    I’m gonna piggyback off of TJ a little bit, and say that you can overlap your throttle and braking slightly. In most karts (anything not direct drive) a centrifugal clutch is used. This means it takes a short moment between getting on the throttle and the kart starting to accelerate. This time is acceptable to be overlapping the brake and throttle, but you should not be trying to keep the revs up on a kart while braking. If that’s a problem, you are getting on the gas too late and should likely need to adjust your line a bit. I used to do this all the time at my home track at a couple turns, and still find myself doing it occasionally.

    Like the other guys were saying though, using gas an brake at the same time is hard on both the clutch and brakes. From a driving standpoint, using the gas and the brake is trying to do two inverse things at once, accelerating and decelerating. This will, as stated before, increase wear and is not the quick way to get around a circuit.

    Don’t worry too much though, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last to do this. I blew a hole in two pistons before we realized I was riding the gas through turns. That keeps the engine temps really high and, in our Yamaha at least, eventually burns through the engine.

    #76934

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    William.

    Did you ever decide what kart and engine package you’re gonna go with? Or not yet?

    #77869

    William Weiler
    Participant

    Freddy – I posted here about what I am thinking:

    Buying chassis

    #77870

    FREDDY SANDOVAL
    Participant

    William

    We just had a race at Calspeed in Fontana Ca. last Saturday, I wish you were there, you would have had a blast

    Next race is March 4th. Come on down and I’ll set up a Tony Kart or a Ricciardo Birel/ART for you, for a small fee. That way you’ll know what you like, we’ll wrench and coach for you. You just arrive and drive. Here’s the schedule

    http://www.tri-ckarters.org/index.php

     

    Are you ready to do a race? Or still learning how to drive?

    PM me please, I will help you stop this madness, Lol.

     

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