December 6, 2013 at 6:25 am #17260
Bring back G1 just for the Supernats!
KZ2 had 39 entries…I am sure G1 could easily be 30+ if they ever brought it back.December 6, 2013 at 7:48 am #17275
Bring back G1 just for the Supernats! KZ2 had 39 entries…I am sure G1 could easily be 30+ if they ever brought it back.
And remove what class?
TaG Cadet, Jr, Senior, Masters, S1, S2, S4, S5 are all ProTour classes.
85, 62, 88, 44, 28, 62, 82, 27
Those classes aren’t going anywhere.
Rotax Jr – 41
DD2 – 44
KZ2 – 40
Love or Hate the Morning/Afternoon deal, it works. That leaves 16 groups in how the schedule is corrently laid out.
Look at the entries 7 classes this year sold out. (Either 40+ or 80+)
2 Class were between 40-80 entries, both at 62.
And two class were less than 40. Which were s1 and S5, 2012 the entires in those classes were 24, 25. 2011 the entries in those classes were 24, 17.
S1 will grow next year as more people move out of S2. S5 will hopefully continue to grow with both in the 30+ next year.
I know a lot thought KZ2 would be down this year. Some even feared that it would be the last year for the class. All due to the fact that most of the Europeans were at a race on that side of the pond. But look at the entries 2013 – 40 , 2012 – 33. 2011 – 37
Now moving on to next year, TaG Masters could probably pull in 60. Which might only leave two other groups/classes. KZ and what else?
If you look at 44 per group. The max number of entries would be 704. And this year it was 603. 85%. SKUSA is a business, so I know Tom and the gang will have the classes that will bring the most entries and will also make sure the “core” pro tour classes are featured. And I know Tom loves the G1 class, as that’s the class he ran, but it is a business.
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usDecember 6, 2013 at 8:12 am #17278
I totally get the small turn out during the pro tour for G1. BUT, for supernats this class can pull in 30-40 entries…I say don’t remove anything. Add it to the program. Since it is a business, an extra 30-40 entries would help the pockets 🙂December 6, 2013 at 8:17 am #17279
Personally I would love to see the G1 class back but its not going to happen. What I would love to see is a new emphasis on driver quality instead of driver quantity. If we take it to the extreme and stuff 700,800 or more drivers into the event do you really think it will be a better event because of it. I don’t. The S5 class would be full tomorrow if the ages were adjusted slightly. I think the sport needs a proper entry level shifter class and S5 is fine except for the fact that if your 15 you would move up and run with the adults. Doesnt really give a kid much time to learn how to drive a shifter before he/she is thrown to the wolves. If you started at 13 fine but I think most kids start in tag then decide to do shifter. When they dont get it right away they fade back to what they know better, I think thats way you havent seen the growth in the class. To get back to the ” Buzz” of the event, because the days are long and there are so many drivers and classes I think the event just looses something because of it. Some of the racing is awesome and thats why I attend and race in the event, I just think that now that the event is heavily attended some attention should be given to raising the level of driving overall. The emphasis should now be on, ” If you race at the Supernats it means your damn good and your going to prove it, not by driving dirty but by displaying your pure talent and raw speed”. If you win the whole karting world should know it and the drivers should be showcased in some way. I think for the event to truely become something special a TV package of some sort has to be developed. An example is the Canadian Nationals. In the past every single class has been televised on TSN in Canada. In the US the SCCA Runoffs are also televised. The Supernats is certainly as large of an event as those two so why are none of the races televised? With 600+ racers I’m sure there is a big enough group of people that can work together to get something going. That would certainly help build the ” Buzz”.December 6, 2013 at 8:22 am #17280
I totally get the small turn out during the pro tour for G1. BUT, for supernats this class can pull in 30-40 entries…I say don’t remove anything. Add it to the program. Since it is a business, an extra 30-40 entries would help the pockets
Looks at the schedule you’ll see the event can ONLY have 16 groups.
On track schedule
Wed. – 8am – 7:20pm
Thur – 7:30am – 6:40pm
Fri – 7:30am – 7pm
Sat – 7:30am – 8:30pm
Sun – 7am – 4:15pm
Breaks – 40min, 30min, 30min, 30min, 20min
I wasn’t there this year, but the 3 years prior the night always ended up going longer than scheduled. I can only imagine with all the rain this year how long the days were.
So honestly, where would you put G1? People always comment about not enough practice or too short of a practice session. So please tell us where to add another group or class?
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usDecember 6, 2013 at 8:48 am #17282
Adding extra time to the overall program….Now that I think about it, it’s easier said then done…this will shift the awards ceremony to a later time as well…I do not know what the agreement with the Rio is…maybe skusa has a set number of days and hours they can rent the place…I guess all we can do is hold our breath and hopefully it might make a come back…December 6, 2013 at 9:13 am #17290
Adding extra time to the overall program….Now that I think about it, it’s easier said then done…this will shift the awards ceremony to a later time as well…I do not know what the agreement with the Rio is…maybe skusa has a set number of days and hours they can rent the place…I guess all we can do is hold our breath and hopefully it might make a come back…
Honestly, look at the schedule. You can’t add more groups. The max is 16 groups. Unless you cut the 3 heat races. Which is nearly impossible when you have the ABCD format for the heats with karts over 40.
Friday a driver is on track 3 times. practice, qualifying and 1st heat race.
Saturday if you add another group the day that’s already 13+ hours long will be even longer.
Note: I have NO afflication with SKUSA. I’ve just been around the sport long enough to see that scheduling a race is alot harder than most people realize.
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usDecember 6, 2013 at 9:21 am #17292
Personally I would love to see the G1 class back but its not going to happen. What I would love to see is a new emphasis on driver quality instead of driver quantity. If we take it to the extreme and stuff 700,800 or more drivers into the event do you really think it will be a better event because of it. I don’t.
You are completely right. The time schedule sets the number of groups, which in turn limits the number of drivers.
SKUSA is one of the few US organizations that has a leader system, at least for the shifter guys, with S5 to S2 to S1. And yes it would be great to have the best 40 or 80 drivers in every class, the issue is that the SuperNats is a one off event for some and is also part of a season long series for some.
How do you get the best quality drivers? After reading about the Rotax Worlds, even where you have to win your way there doesn’t always mean you are a quality driver in all aspects.
It’s are hard thing for sure, glad it’s Tom and SKUSAs job to make all the decisions. It’s obvisous over the years they are doing alot of stuff right (of course not every decision is the best), as the event continues to grow year after year.
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usDecember 6, 2013 at 9:38 am #17298
Just to add in a little commentary, here is what I believe you can expect for the 2014 SuperNationals:
1. Live Video – EKN will be producing a live streaming video broadcast in cooperation with SKUSA – my goal is to then use that footage to put together a show for one of the cable channels like MAVTV
2. The class numbers will shrink to shorten the days – I highly doubt any classes will be added at this time
3. KZ will return to the line-up thanks to strong domestic participation this year in the absence of some of the factory efforts
4. A increased focus will be put on improving the quality of the racing
5. There will be an expansion in purse money and prizes
It’s all about small improvements each year to make sure the race gets better and better.
Rob Howden - eKartingNews.com Publisher / Editor - @RobHowdenDecember 6, 2013 at 12:43 pm #17312
I wonder how much of the DD2 participation was related to the closeness of the Rotax Worlds at NOLA?
Can’t deny the DD2 competition was impressive.
As for G1, I can’t see it coming back. Just run KZ haha.
No matter what the class is, you are battling with “the wolves” at the Supernats, thats what makes the event so great.
I guess one approach would be to move the event to a larger and or wider track to accomodate more karts simultaneously, but the event seems to be so popular at the Rio I think I’d be hesitant to change that.
Otherwise, perhaps the junior and senior classes need to be different events et-all?December 6, 2013 at 4:02 pm #17333
G1 would be great, I raced the class myself years ago, when it went away I actually entered SuperPro/KZ. I didnt do to bad afterall I was 40 yrs old at the time, didnt get lapped or black flagged. Wasnt in the top 10 either but those guys were some of the best drivers I have ever raced with. To explain the level of driver quality in that class I remember in one of the practice sessions Fritz Leesmann came up behind me. He was faster so he just gave me a little nudge to let me know he was there and wanted to move through, I simply moved slightly off line and he went through and I tucked in behind him. No harm, no foul. I thought to myself at the time that this is how all racers should be. It was actually one of the most enjoyable races I have ever done even though didnt have the horsepower to truly compete. The best drivers dont crash unless it truly is an accident. This type of ” professional ” driver approach is what we all need to promote. The Supernats should be the race that we showcase it at the highest level. I think the changes that Rob has talked about will be great and make the event better.December 6, 2013 at 7:57 pm #17344
I was honestly a bit surprised DD2 pulled in as many entries as it did. But it was good to see that adding the class ended up being a positive. It was also good to see KZ2 stay alive and well with a solid turnout, and in relation to that I want to give a shout to my boy Matt Jaskol, how about his weekend eh? 4th in S1 and from last to 21st in a last minute KZ entry. Even with the rain I still had a great time attending and as always, I look forward to next year. One of these days i’ll get my crap together and participate so I can cross the second most important item off my bucket list: racing at the Supernats, which will hopefully lead to item #1: Win the Supernats lolDecember 8, 2013 at 12:57 pm #17426
Not to be trying to be negative because the SKUSA crew did a good job under trying conditions but I gotta be honest, this year the S-Nat’s was a damn miserable place to be — a bit of rain is one thing but I got in Wednesday night and never saw anything that resembled dry until Sunday. The racing Sunday was good but overall, this years event was a disappointment thanks to mother nature. Wet, cold, windy,,,, it just sucked.
That’s why no buzz.December 8, 2013 at 1:54 pm #17429
It was the first time I had both a river and a lake in a pit stall I worked in. A miserable 3 days of rain and cold. If it wasn’t for going to Nove Italiano and Sushi Samba, the whole trip would have been a bust. At least we got to have a dry day Sunday.December 8, 2013 at 6:22 pm #17441
I’m not a racer, but I am one of the Vegas locals. In my opinion karting doesn’t get the credit in the racing world that it deserves, but I can tell you that from a locals point of view there wasn’t enough exposure in town for the event. Yes, I agree that most of the buzz about Supernats is going to develop on the web. However even in town it wasn’t know that the event was going on. There were no signs, there was no exposure. I know the weather for most of the days didn’t help any. My thing is that I never saw a sign or a billboard in town. Besides some banners in the hotel I didn’t see anything on it. There was no local news or newspaper coverage that I saw to draw people to the event. Why wasn’t there a kart on a stand at the front desk the week of the event that people can look at and ask what that’s all about. I’m sure a manufacturer would fess one up. Get the local guys here in town to help out. My son races locally and we have to do things to get the word out. I went to Coffee and Cars the weekend before and no one there knew about it. For being the “largest karting event” the marketing portion seems to be missing. In this town there are things you can do that aren’t out of the norm. What about the weekend before karts going down the Strip. I know you can coordinate that through the city. If the locals don’t even know about it how is anyone else?
All things cost money. We were perpared to supply a complete kart/motor package to put in lobby of the casino or at the entrance towards track. Unfornately the cost outweighed the possible return.December 8, 2013 at 8:20 pm #17444
Very interesting about the cost. I send you a PM.December 8, 2013 at 11:03 pm #17448
The rain was the main dampner on the event this year, one day might not have been to bad but three days of it made for longer days, plus standing around in the rain watching even for the dedicated starts to wear thin. The rain did help mix up the fields and watching the drivers that were used to wet weather racing carve their way thru the traffic was good (Ben Cooper in DD2 was great to watch in the wet), then on Super Sunday those that managed to make the finals that maybe in the dry would of been starting further forward were able to show their ability as they worked forward thru the feilds.
Streaming live on the net like the Rotax worlds does would be great for those that can’t attend who want to watch from elsewhere in the world.
As for media coverage Karting is still a minority sport so will always struggle to attrack the major media outlets but having top stars from other divisions will help as does a good result. With Matt Hamilton’s win in S4 it got a full page in the Automotive section of the major Daily in NZ plus mention of the rest of the team that had gone up and made it to the finals.
DD2 drew good numbers due to the fact there was a ticket to next years world finals at stake.December 9, 2013 at 5:22 pm #17492
im not trying to add classes or take away. i think leave it alone. everything is fine considering how well the races seem to race over the days involved. the thread was about the buzz…. if i post to instagram,,, i can share it to a number of other sites like facebook. IMO that is why there is less buzz on here. IMO there should be a link from the ekn twitter that shares all posts to a forum section that can be posted too from twitter.
if i write something or post a pic…why would i then come on here to talk about it?
if the forum section that posted twitter could then be posted on from a person on that section????dont know if you can make that happen? but th
so who can make a section called Kart Twitter that would scroll all the twitter posts with a related has tag….named by the moderator? ie….#RMC #SKUSA17. this would drive peeps to this site to see what the hashtag is and then all involved would use the hashtag. then others can start following
IMO the forums should be helpful and less drama. they should be about getting people into karting and giving advice to those that need it. and if the pics we post from races were somehow posted to this site…there would be more traffic. i would rather see pics and how things are going from the race in the first place. and now with short vids thrown in…it makes it more possible to check in.
i dont think any monies need to be spent promoting the event because there is no payout to the promoters of the event for spectators….
i honestly havent been to a supernats since the first one that wasnt called supernats…so not sure what things can be done to make more money for skusa.
concessions would be where i focused IMO.
if the casino advertises on radio i know it is pretty easy for them to get an exchange of ad time for interviews with some representatives that has something interesting to talk about. have a driver get interviewed. have some show girts go with the driver…discuss something about the race, casino, etc. i did that here in houston with the dog racing track that advertised on the radio.
just my opinionDecember 19, 2013 at 10:44 am #18154
I know this is a little off the main topic but I want to touch on some comments made within the thread. Here are my opinions whatever they are worth.
As for the split schedule I think it’s very smart. You have to remember that this race is in Vegas. It’s an attraction. Many of the racers that come do so because they can bring their entire family and enjoy this as a race and a fun vacation. If you keep everyone on the track all day long then they are too tired to enjoy the destination and friends and family members get tired of sitting at the track all day long. This is also what attracts most of the international competitors. Vegas is known world wide and everyone wants to come here. A race is a great excuse to come here as long as you have time to enjoy it as well. Some would say that this race is only for the best drivers to show up and nothing else matters. Sure, the top 10 or so of each class shares this mentality which will be the same top 10 at every big race. However you can not support a series/national event year after year with only the best participating in it. Look at what happened to STARS of Karting. I raced with that series during its peak and all the way to its death. Why? It got to where it was so serious and expensive that only the drivers that had a chance of finishing top 10 or better would show up because it cost so much money to race and everyone else just stayed home. You could watch the front guys battle it out but what fun is that when the field is small? Of course this had a lot to do with the engine rules vs. our now stock spec moto rules.
I think allowing anyone to show up at the SuperNats or any ProTour race (within reason) is great for the health of this sport. Making people qualify like Rotax does only frustrates people and eventually will stop racing local races because they are already out of contention of getting a punch. It leads to discouragement. I see this kind of behavior at our local track all the time.
This sport is already small and niche enough, any kind of rule that makes you qualify to go to the next race only hinders the growth. No matter what you will still see the same fast guys at the front whether there are 80 in the filed or 30 in the field. It’s just more exciting with 80. 🙂
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