Home Forums Shifter Karts OMG! 55Hp KZ motor with Fuel Injection and Fly by Wire!

This topic contains 49 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  mal crosher 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 50 total)
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  • #22295

    MikeGoebel
    Participant

    We found that on a 1999 Trans Am engine that there was essentially no difference in peak HP reading but that drivability and fuel economy were better on the EFI engine.

    Mike G.

     

    #22302

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    Mike, the EFI motor also had programmable ignition as well as fuel management I would assume?

    I personally think those KZ numbers are inflated just because of the flat ignition curves. You could tune the ignition for peak power, it would either grenade or be a toad under that….

    55hp seems like a big number, unless your racing dynos….

    CR

    #22311

    Sam Zavaglia
    Participant

    I read the press link and this post but I can’t see anywhere about the quoted power being at the crank, output sprocket or rear wheels.

    The debate is totally pointless unless we know this.

    #22342

    Greg Lindahl
    Participant

    Gents;

    Read and study Race Engine Technology and other engine technology books and you’ll know that 55 HP with modern EFI, coatings, combustion knowledge, fuels/oils is entirely possible. 

    Opinion is worth $0.00.  (:-)

    #22351

    Keith Bridgeman
    Participant

    At the very tip of the best Mod motos of the day back in 00-02 I never really heard a true HP number but I bet it was around 45-48 max. Those motors where as open as you could get.

    #22353

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    At the very tip of the best Mod motos of the day back in 00-02 I never really heard a true HP number but I bet it was around 45-48 max. Those motors where as open as you could get.

    And they were grenades!!!!  That’s one reason I said that 50hp, would be a stretch with a KZ, and “IF” 55hp was possible in a KZ EFI, that would be huge at the beginning of this thread…

    #23957

    Dan Davis
    Participant

    I see it has the $60 spark plug boot…..and the $45 spark plug beneath it no doubt.  Awesome! ;-)

    #26288

    Howie Idelson
    Participant

    At the very tip of the best Mod motos of the day back in 00-02 I never really heard a true HP number but I bet it was around 45-48 max.</span>

    Suggest you get better info.

    #26299

    Keith Bridgeman
    Participant

    Then you must have it,  share it!

    #26307

    mal crosher
    Participant

    Keith , Chris,
    Your talking mod moto with 48hp in 2002.

    Ever get trackside at motogp in last days of the 125Gp class like fast open flowing Phillip Isle gp circuit ? Because comparing a motox transplant that is restricted by it’s design ( ie engine tightly cradled , usable power to ground ,suspension must colapse clean all around pipe etc)
    to a factory european completely open un resticted gp engine developed week in week out against just as equal competition is only worth a HP or 2 ? Seriously .

    #26327

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    Mal, the only restriction “by design” on a moto-x motor is the intake track is turned to ovoid the rear shock.  That was eliminated with the cut cases and straight intake boots.

    The later RS’s design benefits from a balance shaft, and programmable ignition that’s where a lot of hidden power comes from, and from what I see with respect to the KZ’s, that’s not allowed, and or implemented…

    And again….  If you could have 75hp in a KZ package that would great, but they are designed to run around a 1/2 sprint track, so they have to be drivable also…  That’s kind of what happen to 2 stroke MX bikes, they make more power for the size, but the 4 strokes have a better power band, which equals faster laps, which equals wins…

    CR

    #26329

    mal crosher
    Participant

    Chris,
    No if mx 125 wasn’t restricted on exhaust port angle etc you wouldn’t have exhuast/power valve that’s needed for mx but pointless in a kart as per kz. ( hence the 250f)

    Do you remember what brands ran & won last few years of 125gp ? wasn’t honda aprillia etc it was derbi , italjet and ktm etc.

    #26362

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    They ran power valves on the 250 GP bikes, same cylinders as the 125’s.  They made more than 2x the power of the 125’s….

    The only limiting factor with respect to the exhaust port is how wide you can make it before the ring falls in and the piston chews up…

    BTW the 125’s got a 7 kilo weight break also…

    CR

     

     

     

     

     

     

    go

    #26371

    mal crosher
    Participant

    Chris,
    I don’t know how many 125/250 gp bikes front ends are sorted to max out on a big set of doubles but i’d imagine it’s of no real concern .

    Anyone who knows how to build half decent 125mx pipe knows the front wheel distance with forks collapsed is the biggest limiting factor.

    #26373

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    Chris,
    I don’t know how many 125/250 gp bikes front ends are sorted to max out on a big set of doubles but i’d imagine it’s of no real concern . Anyone who knows how to build half decent 125mx pipe knows the front wheel distance with forks collapsed is the biggest limiting factor.

     

    Mal, ????????????

    #26405

    mal crosher
    Participant

    Chris,
    Ok . simply put. No point building the fastest 125 pipe if you mash it on the ground or with the front wheel after your first big suspension hit is there ?

    That was always the issue with any 125mx pipe building. again , not something gp or kz developers need to even consider .

    #26411

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    I don’t know why this is going in this direction, but I’ll set you straight… Pun Intended….

    There was a little invention back in 70’s called a High Pipe, they haven’t mashed a pipe since…..

    #26431

    mal crosher
    Participant

    What am i dealing with here ?

    that pic you.posted , ktm ? Notice how pipe doesn’t hang below frame/engine/shock linkage ?

    Why is that you think ? Just so happens that way ?

    I know your pro moto but seriously come on man !

    #26458

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    What am i dealing with here ? that pic you.posted , ktm ? Notice how pipe doesn’t hang below frame/engine/shock linkage ? Why is that you think ? Just so happens that way ? I know your pro moto but seriously come on man !

     

    I trying to figure out WTF you’re talking about!!!

    “Ok . simply put. No point building the fastest 125 pipe if you mash it on the ground or with the front wheel after your first big suspension hit is there ?”

    I raced motocross for 10 years, I never bent or saw anybody bend a pipe from a front wheel hitting it?????  Or from “mashing it on the ground”????  Bent in a crash, dented from roost, absolutely….

    And what does any of this have to do with karts Mal????

    Getting back to my point, 55hp “IF” and a big “IF” were possible in a 125 kart motor, it would great on a dyno, but try and drive it on a 1/2 mile sprint track….

    #26495

    mal crosher
    Participant

    Chris,
    Lol. thank god old 125motogp teams didn’t go to you to win world titles hey ?

    ” Just put a cr125 in , straight cut intake boot is the game changer and with the pipe ? Make sure it looks good first please ” you’d say ?

    I’m outta here. lol. It’s been fun.

    #26499

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    I’m outta here. lol. It’s been fun.

     

    That’s the most sense you’ve made so far….  Thank God!!!!

    CR

    #26525

    Christiaan Bouhuys
    Participant

    Mal,

    Don’t take it personal. CR just loves an argument and you just can’t win as he has way more time on his hands to browse these forums than anyone else and he is willing to engage in endless rebuttals without much regard for factual accuracy or consistency of position (anything to win an argument).

    It’s a pity some people are here just to get their personal satisfaction of being an online forum bully instead of having an open-minded conversation and trying to help other people.

    -CB

    #26639

    Chris Reinhardt
    Participant

    Mal, Don’t take it personal. CR just loves an argument and you just can’t win as he has way more time on his hands to browse these forums than anyone else and he is willing to engage in endless rebuttals without much regard for factual accuracy or consistency of position (anything to win an argument). It’s a pity some people are here just to get their personal satisfaction of being an online forum bully instead of having an open-minded conversation and trying to help other people. -CB

    I thought we were having a great discussion????  He started out talking about GP road racing at Phillip Island, then he switch to GP MX, said the moto engines were restricted because of power valves,  then switch to exhaust pipe angle restricted them, talked about front suspensions???  I just don’t agree that turning the cylinder 180* and straightening the exhaust port, gives you 10hp on a 125, that’s A LOT of HP!!!!

    It is what it is, unless somebody has one to run, it’s all bench racing…..  Sorry if I offended you, relax and enjoy the banter…

    CR

    #26642

    mal crosher
    Participant

    I never said 180 switch on top end did that ?

    This going to hurt Chris , but ICC cases were used well in 125gp classes and what you seen and heard in video above was well claimed by many of a factory team around the paddocks in last few years of 125motogp. In fact that set up in video is pretty much what they were doing.

    Now is useable in short sprint karting ? Probably not , is it possible ? The above mentioned figures have already been claimed well before elsewhere.

    #26644

    mal crosher
    Participant

    Actually Chris I was going to mention how demise of 125gp racing left all these Italian engine manufacturers really only have one avenue to put all previous 125gp technology etc into kz karting only and all .

    But i honestly don’t think your ready for it.

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