Home Forums Autocross / Solo 2 New "Mod ICC" Proposal

This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Jason Vehige 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #22774

    Craig Butt
    Participant

    Today I submitted the proposed addition to the KM class of a “Mod ICC” option for engines.  My thinking is with some modest modifications (and according weight penalty) we might bring out some additional competitors and add some variety to the class.  My reasoning is outlined in the proposal and if adopted, I would be interested in doing said mods and bringing my kart back out to play.  For tracking purposes, the proposal is “13615”.  I will be curious to here feedback from some of those still currently running in the class.

     
    <p class=”MsoNormal” style=”margin: 0in 0in 8pt;”><b style=”mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;”><span style=”color: #0070c0; line-height: 107%; font-family: ‘Arial’,’sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;”>I am proposing a minimal amount of modification be allowed to the ICC motors for several reasons:

    1) There are many of us who will NEVER make minimum weight in KM

    2) This engine family is not growing, homologations are expiring, parts are getting more expensive and rare (for some older motors)

    3) ICC motors are not winning anywhere

    I would like to propose the following changes be allowed/added as an option for ICC motors:

    1) Mod ICC runs at 435 lbs

    2) Section 19.2.b – change to no mimimum combustion volume

    3) Section 19.2.c – change to no airbox required, free carb (or allow up to 38mm)

    4) 19.2.d – Homologated pipe not required (open)

    The balance of the rules package, stock internals, porting/polishing, stock factory ignition remain in place.  We let the motors breathe and gain some compression and add in a weight penalty that most of us are already paying and see if we can generate some additional participation and variety.  I’ve got most of the stuff sitting around to do it – I would love to try it out and see what it does!

    Thank you! </span></b></p>
     

    #22798

    Daniel Wendel
    Participant

    1) There are many of us who will NEVER make minimum weight in KM

    2) This engine family is not growing, homologations are expiring, parts are getting more expensive and rare (for some older motors)

    3) ICC motors are not winning anywhere

    Hahahahaha,

    1) Karting is not for big people, just a fact. I was 215lbs before this season, I am down to 185lbs now, just by eating right. So it is possible depending on how serious you are.

    2) What?? KZ2&KZ2 is very popular across the pond. You have many new engines to chose from TM KZ10b, Maxter, Vortex, IAME, and more.
    How is this different than using a Mod Moto which was popular in the sprint world how many years ago?

    3) I am shaking my head at this… Last year at nationals was my first nationals and I just got into karting. The first time I drove one was in April. Now the first day of nationals I was sitting in 11th place, which was the “lower HP” friendly course.  The second day was a complete disaster for me due to a clutch failure. Basically I had a FM car, not to mention how hung over I was, which is my fault. I guarantee you if you put Paul Russell in a KZ kart he would still win. To say they are not winning because they have KZ engine is moronic.

    Curious to see what a modified KZ can make power wise. Not sure if any more power than what a legal KZ can make is worth it in an autocross. The power band of the KZ engines are already narrow and peaky. Modding with out adding PI would make it even more narrow of a power band. Which is not what you want in an autocross.

    I say NO to this.

    #22814

    Craig Butt
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Craig Butt wrote:</div>
    1) There are many of us who will NEVER make minimum weight in KM

    2) This engine family is not growing, homologations are expiring, parts are getting more expensive and rare (for some older motors)

    3) ICC motors are not winning anywhere

    Hahahahaha,

    1) Karting is not for big people, just a fact. I was 215lbs before this season, I am down to 185lbs now, just by eating right. So it is possible depending on how serious you are.

    2) What?? KZ2&KZ2 is very popular across the pond. You have many new engines to chose from TM KZ10b, Maxter, Vortex, IAME, and more.<br>
    How is this different than using a Mod Moto which was popular in the sprint world how many years ago?

    3) I am shaking my head at this… Last year at nationals was my first nationals and I just got into karting. The first time I drove one was in April. Now the first day of nationals I was sitting in 11th place, which was the “lower HP” friendly course. The second day was a complete disaster for me due to a clutch failure. Basically I had a FM car, not to mention how hung over I was, which is my fault. I guarantee you if you put Paul Russell in a KZ kart he would still win. To say they are not winning because they have KZ engine is moronic.

    Curious to see what a modified KZ can make power wise. Not sure if any more power than what a legal KZ can make is worth it in an autocross. The power band of the KZ engines are already narrow and peaky. Modding with out adding PI would make it even more narrow of a power band. Which is not what you want in an autocross.

    I say NO to this.

    WOW!
    1) Congratulations on your weight loss. Now lets alienate anyone who cannot do that for whatever reason from the class…..
    2) Older ICC motors are now out of homologation and have much less support. Many of these can be purchased at a reasonable cost and Solo II could be a great home for them. There has not been a great deal of growth if any in the US. From a cost effective standpoint, running out and buying the “latest & greatest” is not the best option for many folks. Solo II is supposed to be an “entry level” activity into SCCA.
    3) I’m sure there are very talented people that can win with ICC – but why do you think they choose not to? Perhaps they realize they don’t need the handicap of running a less competitive package?

    I too am curious – if it won’t help without PI – then we could add that into the rules package for Mod ICC. I think that letting these motors breathe and adding compression will be enough to let them mix it up in the class with some heavier drivers – without adding too much expense.

    Speaking of moronic… it’s the attitude that giving folks an option to run something different to make a bigger fields and more competition is bad. After 35 years in this club it just amazes me how many folks want to keep competition out of their class (probably why we continue to have SO many classes). If I were “typical” of some of the rules making I would have asked for a “KM-Heavy” class and a “KM-Light” class, but I just want a bigger more inclusive class (it’s more fun)

    #22876

    Joe Ricard
    Participant

    Having had an ICC for several years,  Once I learned how to 1. drive it, 2 maintain it  and ultimately learned that I can’t keep up to it.  I traded my Vortex RVS for a Rotax Max.

    Put that on the shifter chassis with front brakes and 365 pounds.   Not fast off the line but once going I can probably keep up in the cones.   Will I ever trophy @ NATS?  Heck no that ship has sailed for me 20 years ago.   Can I still have fun on big courses heck yea.

    Craig if you are looking to include your Hopped up ICC because it is cheap and you have one puts you in a class of one.  Just as I am with my rotax cone smasher.   Don’t believe the top of the KM field is running old obsolete karts or only getting only 4 minutes of seat time per month.

    As much as I despise Honda products I have to admit the rule set for KM Honda motors is a great package and makes more power than stock SKUSA  Honda.

    #22894

    Craig Butt
    Participant

    Having had an ICC for several years, Once I learned how to 1. drive it, 2 maintain it and ultimately learned that I can’t keep up to it. I traded my Vortex RVS for a Rotax Max.

    Put that on the shifter chassis with front brakes and 365 pounds. Not fast off the line but once going I can probably keep up in the cones. Will I ever trophy @ NATS? Heck no that ship has sailed for me 20 years ago. Can I still have fun on big courses heck yea.

    Craig if you are looking to include your Hopped up ICC because it is cheap and you have one puts you in a class of one. Just as I am with my rotax cone smasher. Don’t believe the top of the KM field is running old obsolete karts or only getting only 4 minutes of seat time per month.

    As much as I despise Honda products I have to admit the rule set for KM Honda motors is a great package and makes more power than stock SKUSA Honda.

    Joe,
    Thanks for the input. I have no illusions about some of the national level stuff. I worked the program pretty hard locally for three years, upgraded chassis, engines, etc. I read all the information on set ups, tried different tires and got the package better. I too have never been a Honda fan, nor wanted the “spec package” that everyone else ran. I LIKE the 6″ wheel rule. I just think the idea of the Mod ICC (which is not legal by today’s rules) would be a lot of fun and MAY open up some more interest to others in the class. Sorry, but I’m not a National’s guy – for the money, I would rather invest in track time for the car – but I still like running the kart at the local track when I can!

    #22967

    Bill Schmidt
    Participant

    Being one of the heavier guys at Nats (215lbs before helmet), I think this engine proposal is an excellent idea. Maybe we can get 52 hp. out of this tune? Lets do it!!!!!!!

    #22975

    Craig Butt
    Participant

    Being one of the heavier guys at Nats (215lbs before helmet), I think this engine proposal is an excellent idea. Maybe we can get 52 hp. out of this tune? Lets do it!!!!!!!

    Please write to the SEB (Solo Events Board) to let them know of your support. Use the link below:

    http://www.scca.com/solo/content.cfm?cid=44517

    And scroll to the bottom of the page and you will find the link:
    Want to make a rules change proposal? Write to the Solo® Events Board (SEB)
    Reference Letter #13615 and/or “Mod ICC” proposal

    While you are there, you can also voice your support for the 6″ wheel allowance – I think this is another great idea to ad more choices/diversity to the class.

    #28234

    Ryan Windfeldt
    Participant

    I’ll certainly write a letter of support, as more karts autocrossing is better in my opinion.  I am a little confused about the 6″ wheel allowance.  I’m looking at the SCCA rulebook right now and it says in 19.1.b.1. Wheels must be metallic. 5” and 6” rim diameters are approved.  Not sure what more is needed there.

    #28250

    Daniel Wendel
    Participant

    We should also make the Aixro XR50 legal as well.
    Change the 19.1.D.4 to

    Engines must be either a) mass produced single cylinder two-stroke engines not to exceed 125 cc or b) mass produced single, twin cylinder or rotary, four-stroke engines not to exceed 295 cc of total displacement. No prototype, pre-production, “works-type” motors or road race engines are allowed. Shifter or gearbox type motors are prohibited. Karts with engines under this specification must run at a minimum weight of 360 lbs.

    #28428

    Jason Vehige
    Participant

    Us big guys don’t need more HP… We need to be lighter so the chassis works like it should!!! That is where we loose the time.   Unofficially blah blah blah.

     

    Also so from the National perspective we are almost always the largest mod/prepared class… Rarely get put in bump class at pro solos… aka do we need to shake things up?

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