Home Forums Tech Talk Go Kart Racing Telemetry by remote control

This topic contains 39 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Chris Reinhardt 3 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #22341

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Now adjust your Go Karts Carb.by remote control  from the pits. Just like the formula 1 have done for years for both the high and low speed mixtures …
     
    I’m not directly employed by Tillotson Racing of Kerry Ireland. But work very closely with them in developing new Go Kart Racing products. Here is a very short video clip of the large Tillotson HW-26 Carb. with the remote control servos in action—A small completely self contained unit inc. a six volt battery pack to power the servos and receiver
    with full wireless Telemetry feedback and logging in
    real time to the pits for all the engines vital info… EGT, CHT, RPM,
    coolant temperature, battery, GPS speed in MPH and both servos rotations angle
    in minutes plus or minus from neutral . you can use a Laptop or a small fully portable hand held dashboard for the read outs. The range will be one to two miles with a needle valve screw rotation angle of about 180 degrees each

    Tillotson has some of these items in production already .

    Check out there Racing website or email me for more info.

    And let us know if we should pursue this Telemetry feedback unit and bring it to market ?

    Cost About  $1,000.00

    Robert Horvath

    Oconomowoc wi.

    bobhorvath15@gmail.com

    You Tube Link :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtzciarQqjE

     Here is
    An update on the “Go Kart Racing Telemetry by remote control ” units progress.

    These two photos below are of the fully self contained Telemetry remote box  measuring just  5″ X 2 1/2″ X 2  feedback unit for all the engines vital info “Note > The  “Go Karts Carb.by remote control” unit is a completely separate system with its own 6 volt rechargeable battery pack and no wired connection to this telemetry unit. It contains a high power 2.4 ghz transmitter module ( with a 2 mile range ), its own separate 6 volt rechargeable battery pack, a GPS ground speed and location on the track module, ambient air temperature and the rest of the other interface modules.
    To keep things simple and uncomplicated to start off with ( even though it can do much more )  I’m only going to monitor the engines coolant temperature,   EGT (exhaust gas temperature), RPM, ground speed and transmitter voltage.
    The RPM is picked like the Aim/mycron gauge by magnetic induction, and the coolant and EGT will just tie in with Aim’s yellow two pin quick connectors with couple of “Ys” so the on board gauges will still function and that should be the only connections needed to the kart for now.
    As a Tuner and mechanic I’d like to be able to transfer the unit from kart to kart very quickly by just a few tie wraps.
    ( sorry for the photos below being in the wrong aspect ratio as my camera was set to HDTV wide screen  16×9  instead of the more common  4×3 aspect ratio making them looked all squished together) photo DSCN7185.jpg

     photo DSCN7188.jpg

    The transmitter and receiver with all the “Read Outs” unit is pictured below:

     photo DSCN7158.jpg

    Or you can view everything on a common laptop too if desired > the on screen dashboard is pictured below:

     photo DSCN7136.jpg

    Go Kart Racing Telemetry by remote control – YouTubeNow adjust your Go Karts Carb.by remote control from the pits. Just like the formula 1 guys have done for years for both the high and low speed mixtures … 
    … Go Kart Racing Telemetry by
    Ocono Bob

     Link:

    Robert Horvath       at
    Oconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A.
    is a very short video clip of the large Tillotson HW-26 Carb. with the remote control servos in action—A small completely self contained unit inc. a six volt battery pack to power the servos and receiver
    with full wireless Telemetry feedback and logging in
    real time to the pits for all the engines vital info… EGT, CHT, RPM,
    coolant temperature, battery, GPS speed in MPH and both servos rotations angle
    in minutes plus or minus from neutral . you can use a Laptop or a small fully portable hand held dashboard for the read outs. The range will be one to two miles with a needle valve screw rotation angle of about 180 degrees each

    Tillotson has some of these items in production already .

    Check out there Racing website or email me for more info.

    And let us know if we should pursue this Telemetry feedback unit and bring it to market ?

    Cost About  $1,000.00

    Robert Horvath

      photo DSCN7145.jpg

     photo DSCN7150.jpg

     

    Oconomowoc wi.

    bobhorvath15@gmail.com

      photo DSCN7198.jpg

     

     

     photo DSCN7196.jpg

    #22352

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Like karting wasn’t expensive enough.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #22357

    Tim Koyen
    Participant

    Its a super cool project, but I would never want it to be legalized for racing.  We need simpler, less expensive karting.  If it ever gets to the point that we need pit engineers to turn the carb needles, we went wrong somewhere.

    Again, its a super cool project though.

    KartLift Kart Stands
    DeepSeat Kart Seats
    877-777-8020
    ------------------
    Don't bother PMing me, it doesn't work. Email is best: tim@kartlift.com.

    #22545

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Bob Horvath here,

    About the expense thing.

    I do truly believe that in all types of racing we should have at lease one unlimited class where almost anything goes ( like “Top Fuel” in drag racing and “Formula 1” in road racing ) and cost is the last thing on there mind . only winning .. you have to do this  to stimulate new innovations. From day one racing has always been like this… you must allow new innovations for the sport to progress …not stifle it with too many rules in a book…you can see I’m pretty adamant abut this subject. The general public likes to see very fast and competitive racing…not worrying about the cost. I think to have Go karting survive as we now know it …not only do we have to get more Karts on the track but more importantly > More people in the grandstands. Look at the Super Nats. In Vegas.  When they bring out the Shifters..A big crowd gathers and those are expensive machines and people love them.

    You can’t survive without an audience.  NASCAR would be nothing without people in the stands and I think  $1,000.00 for what the Telemetry unit does is in line with the rest of the sports cost. If we continue to “Dumb Down” karts nobody will attend as a spectator. We need more then just the relatives in the stands and I started in this sport with Bob Howard in the late 50s so I know a little something about the sport.

    Walt > 54 years karting experience for me.

    Or To cut the cost in half.  Just use just the engines telemetry monitoring back to the pits  part of the system in real time for the tuner.

    Below > A photo taken when the Shifters are on the track !

    Ocono Bob

    #22549

    Dan Helman
    Participant

    $1000 to buy it then someone to run it then the upgrades then the newest latest greatest version.

    I’d rather my son be a participant in a dumbed down sport than be forced to just watch because I can no longer afford to participate.

    Dan

    #22577

    Ted Hamilton
    Participant

    Cool. I agree that there’s a place for this. But for my money, I’d rather turn the existing gauge off and spend a couple practice days learning to tune by ear/feel….It’s very hard to top the human brain for signal processing and analysis.

    www.facebook.com/hamiltonhelmets/
    2014 Praga Dragon / IAME KA-100

    #22590

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    True Ted,

    No disagreement from me on that statement of yours.

    I know this project is a little over the top and except for some testing under real racing conditions…..I don’t think I would use it myself.

    I do think though I will use just the engine’s monitoring back to the pits part of it in real time this season and the logging feature like the Mychron does.

     photo DSCN7205.jpg

    Ocono Bob

    #22619

    Steve O’Hara
    Participant

    Robert,

    54 years in karting and you still haven’t discovered that karting is not a spectator sport???

    Not trying to be rude here or burst your bubble but karting is a PARTICIPANT sport, it has never been and will never be a spectator sport in any meaningful way. Growth will never be driven by adding devices that cost more than the entire cost of the karts raced by a large percentage of the participants across this country. The Supernationals is a great event but it means virtually nothing to 99.9% of the people that enjoy racing or driving a kart in the USA. Those grandstands you showed are filled mostly with the family, friends and sponsors of the racers on the track. Ticket sales will never be a significant factor in the economics of karting at the level where the majority spend their time and money in the sport.

    Adding sophisticated expensive new equipment is not going to increase the participation or spectator appeal. It only interests gearheads like you and me and a small handful of others who spend their time dreaming up new ways to go faster.

    That being said, your device is a neat invention and I hope you have fun developing it and learn some useful information about the effects of fuel delivery on performance.

    Now before you blast me for not knowing what I’m talking about, just know that I have been involved in karting for 47 years and have eight Duffies and a couple of Lou Borelli Awards gathering dust in my office. All earned before I went off to race cars in the Pro Formula Mazda and Pro Atlantic series… which are also NOT spectator sports. Based on my experience in the professional ranks I can tell you that if not for being slotted in as a support race at many CART or F1 events, no one would come to watch and the TV coverage is bought by the series sponsors. Like the top level karting events, Pro racing in the open wheel series just a step below Indy cars is revered by the people involved but virtually unknown to the rest of society. Anyone that can’t accept that reality is going to be perpetually disappointed.

    If you really want to see karting grow the emphasis must be at the grass roots level to make the sport more accessible and less expensive. Best example I have seen is what Stu Hayner and his F100 Karting organization have achieved in the last few years. People having fun competing in a friendly and supportive environment at a very reasonable cost.

    Regards,

    Steve O’Hara

    #22669

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    OK Steve,
     
    1) > I’ll put this Karting thing as a spectator sport to bed as I see your point.
     
    I live here in the good old USA and Karting here will never be the same as European Karting where it is respected professional sport of racing.
     
    2) > I should have been clearer on what I’m doing with this telemetry device.
     
    Tillotson Carb LTD has a lot of this available already > The Tillotson Racing — SA-501 Precision Jet – Remote Jet Controller

    Tillotson Link:  http://www.tillotson-racing.com/products/precision-jet-remote-jet-controller
     
    Also derived from an earlier design of mine. > see you tube link :
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4V9q3QlAXA

    Thumbnail 
    When I was at the Super Nats in Vegas last year the Tillotson carb people ask me if I could further develop the system to be more sophisticated with remote carb adjustments and real time feed back to the pits.  To make it a little easier to dial in the engine from the pits because the driver has enough to do just driving the kart and tuning the carb is my job not his.
     
    I’m not trying to tell anybody that they should do this to there karts.  I’m just saying what I’m doing with Tillotson for here in the USA  but mostly for the  European Karting market and overseas where karting is taken more seriously then here.

    (and they have been around longer then any of us with there carbs  on awful lot of engines…. I also think they know what there doing by now)

     
    My friends and myself all gave up on Tag. racing….Way,way too expensive to race a TaG. machine…More on that latter.
     
    I told Tillotson that they would have to make me a couple of large bore direct fit pumper type carbs which they did do for me very nicely.
     
    For me to test out on our almost stock Honda CR125 motos  that my friends and I all drive nowadays because of there very cheap cost to operate See this photo below(sorry>it’s in the wrong format) below of the  Tillotson # HW-12 / at 34mm  and the # HW-26 at 36mm.
     
    A very nice carb for the Honda CR125 shifter for the open / expert class of kart racing and way better then keihin float type carb and easy to remove and to return to  fully stock moto racing.

     photo DSCN6964.jpg
     

     
    Now back to the
    expense thing.

    I see karting on par with most other adult toys:

    A new fast Jet ski > $11,000.00 to $15,000.00

    A new very fast Snowmobile > $12,000.00 to $16,000.00

    A new small  boat > $15,000.00 to $ 20,000.00  or more.

    A new fast and very exciting Shifter Kart > $10,000.00 to $15,000.00

    So I don’t think a $1,000.00 accessory for a kart is to much to spend if you even want one…No it’s not needed I agree > It’s just fun to have in your tool box !

    And after 54 years in karting I have finally come to realize that the stock  Honda CR80  or CR125 moto Shifter Karts are by far the cheapest  fastest kind of Kart Racing  and fun you can have on four wheels

    Here are a few points on why it is so cheap to do this Shifter Thing after the initial expense
     
    1) Safety > With brakes on all four corners they stop fast and square every time.
     
    2) Almost never have to worry or change the inexpensive HD #428 chain or sprockets.
     
    3) It has a clutch ..but you never ever have to touch it or play with it like on a Tag kart (A Tag clutch is $$$ to replace also).
     
    4) The Honda dirt  bike engine can go a long,long time before a rebuild is needed.. one, two or three seasons if you want.
     
    5) No super high RPMs to wear things out yet still very fast and thrilling > only 4 to 5 oz. of any kind of oil is needed for the regular pump gas it uses.
     
    6) You never ever have go home sad and broken.
     
    7) When the Shifters are on the track almost everyone stops to have a “Look See”
     
    8) Your personal weight does not mater…Heavy or light we all go fast.
     
    9) If you make a bad mistake on a turn you can quickly get yourself back on track with a “Gear Box”.
     
    10) And on and on.
     
    Here below is a little info on our group of guys and my past invention/ innovations to make these things more civilized to drive and work with:
     
     We are just a small sub chapter club of Badger Kart club consisting of 12 older (18 to 72 yrs. old) guys. Most all of us on Honda CR125 shifters.

    We can’t believe how much more reliable the Honda’s are then the TaG karts we use to drive. A lot Less maintenance too!

    We all just race between each other every Thursday for the fun of it > No waiting for your class to come up > And we get many, many laps in a day > Just Run what you brung.    >  An update  since  I last wrote this  >  Our club now recently said to bring our stuff out on a Sunday and they would make up a class  just for us guys as we are getting spectators to watch.

    No stupid rule book with too many rules either.

    Last year two us tried the ME-Shifter F1 – Electronic Paddle Shifting System, by Mechatron.

    This year two more fellows have fitted there shifters with the paddle system also.

    It changes everything for the better > No driver fatigue > No lifting of the throttle as it has a spark interrupter > Shifts in just 50 milliseconds.

    Very reliable . The only improvement we had to make with the system was to install a much better battery by installing a BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE LITHIUM EVO2 12V 12 CELL MOTORCYCLE BATTERY, 410 AMPS at about 1lb weight to actuate the 60 amp shift servo.

    Some of the guys have switched over to 6 inch rims on Hoosier Super Kart Tires and that’s quite an improvement too.

    We are pretty much too old to “Push Start” these things.

    So we re-installed the OEM kick starter system with extension
    to clear the pipe and that works well too.

    You can see it in the photo below:

    See how nicely it tucks in there

     

     

     photo DSCN5671-3.jpg

    I can’t wait for our season to start here in Wi. For Fun,Fun,Fun.
     
    More recently I got the hard to tune  keihin float type carb off the Shifters and replaced with a pumper type carb.
     
    Here below is photo of a Honda Shifter with a stock Mikuni carb off my old Polaris Jet Ski…She really flys with that carb and no long curved rubber boot to slow down the fuel flow…just put the carb up close and right tight to the engine!   All this stuff I talk about is very easy to do yourself.
     photo DSCN7021.jpg photo DSCN7013.jpg< 

     
    Below is a 24 volt external starter I made utilizing a worm drive wheel chair motor to make it easy to start these shifters while on the stand at the axle itself:

     photo DSCN5504.jpg

     
    Oconomowoc Bob

     

     

     

    #22670

    Steve O’Hara
    Participant

    Robert,

    Some great projects you have shown but you have gone so Hi Tech we can barely decipher your posts LOL

    Kidding aside, I love the innovative ideas and I indulge in some myself but only for my own amusement. Last time I was out at CalSpeed with my TAG I met a guy there with a 250 four stroke shifter fitted with the paddle shift setup and it looked pretty slick.

    Steve O’Hara

    #22671

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Steve,

    As you can see.

    I’m a Karter, engineer, inventor,innovator …But…not a writer.

    I re-wrote it a bit and added a few more photos to further clear up what I’m trying to say here.

    One more thing.

    After I make post like re-installing the kick starter back on the engine everyone tells me “That just won’t work Horvath” but they never tell me why it won’t work ? Must be just an old “Wives Tail” ?

    We all have been using the KickStart for a few years now with absolutely  no trouble at all ?

    They say what’s wrong with just pushing it to start.

    That can get very tiring after a few times….What if you spin and stall out on the “back forty” that can be a long walk back.

    With the Kick back on you just re-start yourself and finish the race!

    A snapshot below of # 92 Shifter Kart at the Wi. Rod & Custom show and me Bob Horvath (the old guy in the photo) and my grandson Myles Beck.

    PS   That’s just a mannequin in the kart itself.

     photo DSCN7193-1.jpg

     

    Ocono Bob

    #22690

    Ted Hamilton
    Participant

    Robert — an additional market for this might be the upper end r/c pylon racers, etc. who would benefit by running right on the edge…And have no other way to change things “on the fly….” hehe

    www.facebook.com/hamiltonhelmets/
    2014 Praga Dragon / IAME KA-100

    #22880

    Mike Clark
    Participant

    Mr. Bob,

    I still need to read all the previous posts. I admire the project. Thanks for posting.

    Steve O’Hara

    Regarding Pro Mazda: This past Saturday my wife & I went catch the Pro Mazdas @ Nola MSP. We were out of the house about an hour to see 1 race and the weather was perfect. If there were 15 spectators that was about it. It appeared everyone else was closely associated with a team. Of course it was the winter series and not advertised locally. Next time I know they are coming I will put the word out.

    #22891

    Steve O’Hara
    Participant

    Mike,

    In my era of running the Pro Mazda series we had fields of 30 plus cars and ran with the ACRL and sometimes with Trans Am at venues like Laguna Seca, Sears Point (Infineon), Portland, Seattle, Phoenix. There were never any spectators to speak of beyond the families, friends and sponsors of the race teams. On a few occasions the Pro Atlantic series was also part of the event and there were still no spectators.

    All of my Pro Atlantic racing was in the era when we were a support race for CART, F1 or IMSA so there were crowds but I don’t think the Atlantics would have drawn spectators anywhere except Trois-Rivières, Quebec where the Atlantics are revered.

    Harsh reality… Americans are just not open wheel race fans like the Canadians or the Europeans so these forms of racing that we love will never be big draws. I don’t care… I go to race and never cared if anyone was watching!

    Steve O’Hara

    BTW, All the funny code in Roberts post is gone now and the text is easily readable. Robert, did you do something to fix that or is it something that cleared up on its own?

    #22893

    Brian Degulis
    Participant

    Sometimes I think it’s a shame that out of the box thinking and inovation have such a small presence in karting. I get the cost drawback but the way we do it now leaves all the inovation to the manufatures and they aren’t real big on cost control.

     

    Cool stuff Robert. I envy your club racing. We had something like that here but it got shut down because of insurance complications. Hopefully it will get worked out.

     

    Brian

    #22905

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Steve O’Hara  you asked:

    BTW, All the funny code in Roberts post is gone now and the text is easily readable. Robert, did you do something to fix that or is it something that cleared up on its own?

    Ans. >

    I copied the complete story to “Notepad”

    and then copied it back to “ekartingnews”

    and that took care of all the excess code.

    Ocono Bob

    #22906

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Brain

    Thanks for the  reply.

    It’s good to know someone who feels like me about the sport.

    Ocono Bob

    #22917

    Steve O’Hara
    Participant

    I’m in the same camp…. modern karting is boring and I have more fun with my vintage stuff where there are basically no rules. Of course vintage karting isn’t the place for electronics but at least we can still play with engine modifications, clutches etc.

    Steve O’Hara

    #22940

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Steve,

    Now you struck a cord in me.

    I hope this isn’t to far off the topic ?

    I’m so old (age 69) it doesn’t seem vintage to me because I was there in those very early years (1958 to about 1961) with my Fox Go Boy with a 2 1/2 Clinton engine and then after that a Simplex Kart and Dual West Bend power plants….That seemed to me at the time to be as fast as a lot karts out there today ?

     I must have watch this 16mm promo  film below about ten times when Mcculloch chainsaws was into karting big time at our 1961 Sport Show .

    The whole thing is pretty good.

    Back in that day it took two strong men to start a Twin Mac Kart !

    (Even with little man Don Knotts at the wheel)

     (July 21, 1924 – February 24, 2006)

    At time > about 6:50

    And check out that trophy gal…That’s one long kiss..I don’t get out to the races much on a Sunday….Do they still do that when you get your Trophy at our racetrack  > Badger ?

    At time > about 9:50

    McCulloch Kart Promotion Movie circa 1961YouTube

     photo MactwinMacPromo.png
    Ocono Bob

    #22943

    Brian Degulis
    Participant

    Lots of old guys on here and it makes me feel better. I started early 70’s with Mac’s. Went a couple of years and moved on to other things . Here I am 40 years  later back into it with my kids. We used to mount a starter on a hand truck and use a belt to the engine to start the Mac’s.

     

    Brian

    #22978

    Steve O’Hara
    Participant
    #23012

    Greg Lindahl
    Participant

    Mr. Horvath,

    I too am an engineer that thrives on building what I think will work and testing for validity. 

    I know exactly what you speak of about other racers thinking that anything new won’t work.  I love proving them wrong, but it’s really not much fun when they don’t have open minds and admit it…

    I’ve been thinking about power kart lifts that can lift/drop, are very light, fold flat or turn into trailers and start my gearbox karts (laydown and shifter roadracing).  Not giving up but will likely have to compromise.

    Aerodynamics are my favorite pursuit.  I’ve had radiators of several sizes mounted in most locations on karts and am still pursuing more.  I’m on my 18th setup now.

    #23021

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Steve O’Hara
     
    What can I say except for “WOW” I’m very impressed now.
     
    What great ride back in Mac history. You’ve got a great collection on the wall.
     
    I have to pass it on the my fiends now it’s so cool!
     
    Ocono Bob

    #23022

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    Greg Lindahl

    Yes on all points, I see we are both on the same page.
     
    And good luck to you too on all your inventions / Innovations.
     
    Ocono Bob

    #23023

    Robert Horvath
    Participant

    FYI.
     
    Ocono Bob talking again.
     
    Let explain a little  about my Telemetry unit just a little more.
     
    It is two completely separate units both with there own rechargeable battery packs.
     
    You can use just one or the other or both.
     
    It will be a nicely finished product ..Not sold though me but by the Tillotson Carb Racing division at a cost at about $500.00 USD for each unit.
     
    The unit will be designed to be relatively quickly removable on race day after the engine is all dialed in for the day.
     
    It takes about 4 minutes to transfer the Telemetry feed back unit from Kart to Kart using just two tie wraps.
     
    The GPS speedometer is built right in —The RPM is by magnetic induction on the plug wire and the engine temperature > Coolant and EGT by the same Aim / Mychron probes and yellow two pin quick connectors we presently use now.
     
    The mixture servo control unit is also a fully self contained unit taking at the most 20 minutes to remove and replace on race day after practice.
     
    I made the unit just for myself because we have a team >Me a pretty good engine tuner and my pretty  great driver. A retired pro guy. He did open wheels cars,410 Sprint cars, Nascar cars and on and on.
     
    PS > He also owned a major Big Car Track here in the USA
     
    So the system can be legal in any class…You just remove it to race legally.
     
    I’ll probably just used the feed back portion of it after we get the Kart pretty well set up early in the season to be “on the edge”
     
    This below is my personal info:
     
    Ocono Bob

    Robert Horvath       at
    W352N6446 Road J
    Oconomowoc Wi 53066 U.S.A.
     
    bobhorvath15@gmail.com

     

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