August 7, 2014 at 4:22 pm #31652
Not tryin to provoke any fighting, but here is an example of what I’m seeing. I didn’t go looking for this, just show up on my FB. I might see this differently if I saw alot of good close racing PR showing up, but honestly I didn’t even hear about this race until things went bad, now this is what tens of thousands are seeing as Kart racingAugust 7, 2014 at 5:48 pm #31653
Does anyone have a link where there are videos of the racing from the Modesto event?
The above clip is just of the cadet kids. That is what you get when you put a 10 year old in a 20 hp kart and say get to the front kid. The drafting in that class is a recipe for pile ups.August 7, 2014 at 7:58 pm #31654
Go to Youtube.com and search Modesto Kart, you’ll find alot of videos.
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usAugust 7, 2014 at 7:59 pm #31655
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usAugust 7, 2014 at 8:01 pm #31656
Also search Modesto GP
GO Designs, LLC
http://www.godesigns.usAugust 7, 2014 at 8:10 pm #31657
David Cole - EKN Managing EditorAugust 7, 2014 at 8:14 pm #31658
Are there viewing areas not shone on the vids? I was expecting spectators lining the track, I see some here and there but I was thinking it would be packedAugust 7, 2014 at 8:21 pm #31659
Are there viewing areas not shone on the vids? I was expecting spectators lining the track, I see some here and there but I was thinking it would be packed
The video EKN did was the first practice, Friday was free, but the temperature was well over 100 degrees. Plus, the PA was not working so people had no idea what was going on. Saturday night, the fences were lined with people around the entire track. There were VIP tents on the front straight, along with a number of vendor tents inside and outside.
David Cole - EKN Managing EditorAugust 7, 2014 at 9:59 pm #31666
we compete in tag jr, besides the sonoma challenge race,this was our first national race. i will say this first before i go on, my driver and i both agree we would definatly do it again.
this track was difficult for the top drivers out there,as most told my sons mechanic/coach,as he knew most of them. its called PRO TOUR for a reason,its not for everyone.and we definatly had some issues,biggest being the off camber exits. put a wheel off the grip and good luck. we rebuilt the front left 3 times and replaced 2 axels.BUT,by heat 1 on sunday he had it figured out and we finished 16th of 31 in the main.wasnt easy,we busted our asses to get there.
problem no.1- 108 on fri,106 on sat, tolerable on sun.
problem no. 2- 5hrs sleep on fri,4 hrs sleep on sat after an 18 hr day in the oven like ht. 9 total hrs of sleep for 3 loooong days of racing.i would think this could alter thought processes and reaction times somewhat.
#3- we ran behind tag cadet, i can tell you that at least 3 hrs of delays on sat were a result of the cadets. and with only 2 pickup vehicals with a single kart capacity each,and 42 cadets go out and 18 finish,THATS a problem. and you could count on that every time they went out. personally.i dont think theres the maturity required to run street races,at least this one.
one more day of practice would have worked wonders for everybody, the track was plenty wide enough,there just was zero runoff for mistakes.take all the karts that run into the dirt at any other track,and you pretty much have what crashed into the barriers.other wrecks,like the vid of the tag sr race where the two drivers in front of him split and there was a kart in the middle of the track and he t boned that kart, that actually happens quite often on other “safer” tracks.
the racing on sun improved dramatically,why? i believe drivers started thinking more.(except cadets)and another day of track time behind them.
as for modesto:
problem no.1- see no. 1 above- when the sun went down the place filled up,we walked thru there before our main on sat night and it was packed, to expcct anyone but us to be out in that heat is just plain stupid. the bars were slammed.there was really only one resturant that publicly complained and he was anti race from day one,so no matter what,he was gonna bitch.
from what i heard,you prolly wont see the bridges again,they supposedly were too narrow and too many steps for joe public.what theyre talkin about is opening certain fences between races to let poeple thru.access did kinda suck,you had to go all the way around the track to get to the other side. as for the berriers, im sure theres 15 million different opinions on them, i thought they did what they were supposed to do.
and YES, straight out of toms mouth sun morn at each individual drivers meeting,he stated that this was to bring more people into karting. and i guarantee every pre teen and teen in attendance thinks they can do this.lol
jmhoAugust 8, 2014 at 8:06 am #31690
Let’s give credit to Tom and SKUSA for trying to pull off a first class event.
If anyone is thinking about doing a street race, please call me. I would be happy to share what we’ve learned the hard way. But one quick point — kart tracks are about 30 feet wide and streets are much wider. Set up a course within the street so there is runoff (about 8-10 feet) on both sides. It makes a world of difference. If your roads aren’t wide enough to do that, find another place.
Barriers need to be able to move – not against the curb. Oh, and don’t use water barriers — might as well have concrete road dividers, plus they can leak. And pedestrian bridges don’t work — we gave up on them 18 years ago. They narrow the track, little kids can fall on the steps and people can drop things onto the track during racing.
Since we’ve had some people ask, I point out that we have a much different track setup and barrier system at the Rock Island Grand Prix. Come race with us and help us celebrate our 20th anniversary.August 9, 2014 at 9:24 am #31732
My apologies to Tom and Stan from SKUSA. Following the Modesto race I had several inquiries from people regarding street courses. I was attempting to share some information learned over my 21 years doing them and the philosophy at Rock Island. In retrospect I can see that my post may have been taken as “piling on” which was not my intent.August 11, 2014 at 6:03 am #31774
I hope that the great people at SKUSA take Roger up on his offer of advice for a street race. The RIGP is done right when it comes to schedule and safety.
The Modesto race was cool, but was definitely lacking in those areas. The schedule problem was obvious by Friday night. I’m not sure why Sundays schedule wasn’t adopted for Saturday also. It may just be my opinion, but I don’t think racers or spectators are all that thrilled about racing until 9pm on Sunday night. Saturday night is cool. Sunday, not so much. As for safety, just two words, Tech Pro.
At the end of the day though, there was way too much jackassery on the part of the drivers which is not limited to this event. Reference the Dallas race, any TAG senior race, or the Supernats. I am one that loves a good slide job, rubbing pods mid corner, or even a slick bump and run from a faster driver coming through the field. However, none of those include knocking people off the track. There is no attempt at passing anymore. Run into or over the guy and proceed. And of course you must hit them hard. It’s okay. They probably have a rich Dad who can pay to fix the kart and at worst pay the ER bills. The driving these days is atrocious. I’m not sure if it is the safety of the current bodywork or lack of talent or just general disrespect for anything that isn’t “you”.
Just my opinion. Flame away.August 11, 2014 at 2:33 pm #31824
No Flames at all Tim, a couple questions or comments
1 At one time, at least out here, there were requirements that you needed to met for certian class’s. Shifter being one, TaG another A required amount of time in a lower HP class being one of them. Same deal for Road Racing. Is that required?
I understand Shops and sales men hate this, I also know first hand its a problem for special or “one of” races to get proper varifacation, but clearly, clearly some of these people are far over their heads.
That brings us to Number 2 question which I really don’t get at all. 2 cy sprint seems obsessed with this concept that you need to hire, tuners, chassis guys, driving coaches and be “under someones tent” to be competitive. My kids have raced every form of karting, and really I just don’t see much of that anywhere else. To be honest, some places you’d be laughed off the track.
We always have asked others for advice, and given it ourselves to anyone that asks us, but there’s no question in my mind, that a increasing number of driver are being pushed beyond their personal experience level either by their parents or personal ego or shops looking for their next disposable hero with a wallet. Any driver has to have the knowledge and experience to move up to faster forms of racing. There’s a difference between someone thinking their ready, and really having it behind them
Sorry that sound so harsh, it certainly doesn’t mean all people or shops by any means, but if you have been around, and grown up through kart racing, look at what you see today, you get the point
We just got back from the Road Race at Blackhawk Farms. 2 mile track 100+ mph for many classes, no shortage of shifters, TaG’s and Sprint opens. Really don’t know official entries numbers but would guess the normal 200-300 entries. Total number of Red Flags, 1, to chase the snapping turtle off the side of the track, I think he was trying to grid for LO 206
Serious point here, far to many people trying to jump into something their not ready forAugust 11, 2014 at 9:08 pm #31844
“We just got back from the Road Race at Blackhawk Farms. 2 mile track 100+ mph for many classes, no shortage of shifters, TaG’s and Sprint opens. Really don’t know official entries numbers but would guess the normal 200-300 entries. Total number of Red Flags, 1,”
No way you can compare a RR at Blackhawk to a National Protour street circuit race.
Take the top drivers in the world, put them on a super fast, super narrow street circuit with obstacles and your going to have carnage.
“I am one that loves a good slide job, rubbing pods mid corner, or even a slick bump and run from a faster driver coming through the field”
Tim, did you watch the S1 race? Tons of respect. Watching Lennox make his way through the field was amazing. I love racing with the S1 guys, most know how to move a guy out of the way without crashing him, that skill is definitely lacking in other classes.August 12, 2014 at 5:10 am #31850
I agree that there are some drivers that may move up too fast, but they are only a small part of the problem. Comparing a RR at Blackhawk to a SKUSA sprint race is like comparing a 30 minute drive to the farm in Nebraska to a 15 minute commute on the 405 freeway in LA during rush hour. Okay, not really, because there is no such thing as only a 15 minute commute on the 405. It takes the same basic driving skills, but different tactics and level of aggression.
The problem I see is a basic lack of respect for other drivers and their equipment. Jimmy, I did not see either of the S1 races at Modesto. They were both past my bedtime. But you will see that I specifically called out 2 events in my other post as well as a whole class, TAG Sr. The shifter guys don’t seem to have the same level of crashem bashem mentality that the TAG guys do. It’s there in both, but TAG takes it to a whole ‘nother level. It’s not a matter of basic talent in either class. There are some speedy TAG drivers that would still just rather run you over than bother to work out a pass. I won’t hypothesize why that is so, whether it is lack of breast feeding as children, middle child syndrome, or being the last one picked for kickball in school, but it is what it is. At least that’s how I see it.August 12, 2014 at 7:24 am #31866
Guys, I’m not looking to fight, but I don’t think that some of you are looking for answers either. I also don’t think you understand that the bad press you guys gets effects everyone in the sport
The comparison with Blackhawk has nothing to do with comparing the tracks simply put, we have the same classes, some like the 250 twins, and superkarts, much faster, are our tracks wider, yes but many not by as much as you think. Are you limited to the layout of existing road, certainly, that’s why streets are not race tracks. Think we don’t have different things to deal with? Try Grattan sometime
None of that had to do with my point which simply is, with maybe 7 or 8 Road Race series working around the country all season, entries from several hundred to a thousand. The point simply is, in any race, the drivers simply must be able to handle the track safely, you can’t blame the track, you chose the track. I hope you don’t shoot paintball with real bullets then complain you got hurt.
Jimmy, I see you have adopted the ” Best drivers in the World” title, boy thats been around before. Ever tried a 1/8 mile dirt track? Think 125’s are fast, come see the 250’s with GP bike engines or the twin engine laydowns. Hardest races we have been in were WKA Dirt back in the 2000’s. 2300 entries at Daytona, 240 shooting for St. medium 30 kart field alone with only 2 qualifying sessions . You might enjoy going into a corner at 70, with 30 others, on dirt. Don’t take yourself so seriously, remember lawn mower racing gets more spectators, sponsors and TV coverage then we do
Theres only one reason I’m even in this conversation, my job is to promote karting. Sorry but out here, never heard a word about this race before it happened. Shifters aren’t around much anywhere east of the river. They had their day, but it seems to be long gone. I think thats too bad, I still have one in the basement, but it hasn’t been out in 10 years. The problem here is when something goes bad, now it is everywhere thanks to public media. The first I knew of that race was all the crash vids that showed up. For the last 2 decades, my wife and I average about 35 days a year doing shows to get people into karting, unless you also talk to thousands of potential new people, trying to get them involved, I don’t think you have any idea how much of an impact those videos have, they scare new people off. 70% or more of our new people are Kid Karts of Jr Sportsman. Parents see that and their done, it effects every track in the country, its not just about California shifter and Tag’sAugust 12, 2014 at 8:47 am #31875
Just wanted to add to the conversation. My son is Jordan Redlin, his video can be see a few posts above. If you watch carefully at about the 2min mark you will notice that he gets a slight push from behind and it pushes him off line, the driver behind gets by. Jordan does not try to then take him out, he puts his head down and drives clean and makes a lot of passes without touching anything. At the 4:58 mark you will see the problem with the chicane. A driver in front clips it and Jordan has to make a big move to avoid him and the barrier, about 5 karts get by. He then picks up the pace and re-passes about three of them. I only put it out there that its not all the Tag Sr. drivers that drive poorly, many of them drive very clean and with a high level of control. My son did contact the wall a couple of times but never touched a kart the entire weekend and drove from last to 4th in the final on Sunday. It can be done with proper technique and not rushing up onto the bumper of the kart in front. More time has to be spent with the younger drivers to teach them the right way to race and pass. Once this happens the racing will be awesome to watch. I think Skusa needs to spend some time developing a crew of officials that can make calls when they see bad driving. They should wear brightly colored vests or something and they need to be visible on the track so that drivers know they are being watched. I doubt it would take more than a couple of races to settle all this down if there were some consequences for some of the more aggressive drivers. With a better schedule and a revised layout the Grand Prix could be a great race.
Daryle RedlinAugust 12, 2014 at 8:58 am #31876
“Jimmy, I see you have adopted the ” Best drivers in the World” title, boy thats been around before. Ever tried a 1/8 mile dirt track?”
The best drivers in the world comment wasn’t my opinion, its fact. Lennox and Fore are two of the best sprint drivers in the world. Not talking about F1, Road Racing, dirt oval or a bunch of guys racing lawn mowers in their back yard. They are a couple of the best 125 sprint racers in the world.
Tim, it was past my bed time to. Never in my life have I been on track at 2;30am. I felt like a zombie and the track was fast as heck. I had a steering wheel hub break going into turn 1, was sheer luck that I didn’t crash.August 12, 2014 at 10:17 am #31880
The hilarity of some of the posts by these Monday morning quarterbacks is insane. For those of you that did not attend Modesto, you could have no idea of the enormity of this event and the infrastructural planning that went into this event. And with all due respect, to compare the track to RIGP is a joke. If Tom used hay bails every 10-15 feet like RIGP, there would be people asking for his head on a platter because of the injuries that WOULD have happened. I dare someone to find a single fence that is exposed to the drivers on the Modesto course. Compare this video of RIGP to one of Modesto’s track: http://www.rockislandgrandprix.com/video_helmet.html .. It would be like comparing a club race to the Supernats. So, asking Tom to take advice from that track design is a F@#$% joke. With those haybales in Modesto, there would have been way more injuries.
Did Tom bite off more than he could chew by making the first race at Modesto a Pro Tour event? Maybe. Was the track too fast? Yes. But, everyone who comes on these forums and suggests how we can make karting mainstream and get more public involvement should try to grasp what was attempted.
Dont get me wrong, I am not pleased with the damage done to my karts or the dive bombing kids that knocked us out of Sunday’s main in turn one after qualifying 6th. But, the public lynching of SKUSA here will insure that no other promoter thinks outside of the box and tries to blaze new trails.August 12, 2014 at 10:24 am #31881
I would put Jimmy up against pretty much anyone here in the U.S. on a street course or Road racing. Plus I bet he would surprise you if you threw him on a dirt oval. He can flat drive!August 12, 2014 at 11:19 am #31885
Daryle’s point is right on the money. It’s not just about the Modesto GP but all kart racing. The drivers need to be taught good racing from bad racing from the get-go, whether they start young or old. I know enforcement is very difficult with the speed of these events so it falls to us, the drivers and coaches, to try to keep this sport clean.
Jordan is an excellent driver. I’m much slower and held him up for 3 laps once and didn’t get any more than a couple of taps on the rear bumper. That comes from good coaching.
#43 - Formula K FK01 / Briggs LO206
West Coast Kart ClubAugust 12, 2014 at 1:10 pm #31891
Hey Stewart, you might want to look at a RIGP race newer then 2010. Haybales are no longer used. A street race that been around since 1995 would seem to have some value to most. SKUSA use to be apart of the RIGP with some very strong fields. Club race to Supernats comparo is ummm interesting for sure
http://bridgemanbroskarting.blogspot.com/August 12, 2014 at 3:23 pm #31898
Some of you know me, some don’t. Those that do know my point is not so a ” lynching of SKUSA here will insure that no other promoter thinks outside of the box and tries to blaze new trails.” in fact, its the opposite, To hope that future events come off better then then this one.
I have some things I really don’t like to bring up, but maybe it will help the real ” Monday morning quarterbacks” understand what were really dealing with. One of the jobs I’ve had in this sport is being one of the handful of people that put on the Road America Supernationals. I did it for 20 years, but the race was around for 35. Often we were over the 1000 entry mark. Twice in 3 years I had to deal with the situation on track for two of our racers that did not make it home. One was an incident between two TaG racers, both had at least a decade of racing, both also did shifters, the kid that died was a close friend and had grown up with my kids. The other incident points to Jimmys comment on the hub. In this case a 2 dollar clevis pin failed. Even with a wide track and good sized sand trap, the man did not make it.
We as racers understand their are risks involved in what we do. We also depend on the various Series, groups, Promoters, whoever, to give us the safest track possible.
You are correct that I was not at this track, but I’ve been around long enough to know when I see the number of comments made, and who some of the people making them are regarding the safety of this track, there must be something to it. Never did I slam SKUSA or suggest they give this up, I do hope they learn from it.
If I’m the Quarterback someone referred to, I can only hope you don’t have to take the ride home from some of the races I did, besides the two mentioned above there has been many more incidents, injuries to kids, carnage to clean up, parents and family to talk to, investigations you become part of, and of course the media which always show up when something bad happens. Those things give you a perspective I certainly hope most people don’t ever getAugust 12, 2014 at 4:45 pm #31899
“Jimmy, I see you have adopted the ” Best drivers in the World” title”
Just to be clear, I don’t think for a second that I fall into that category, I was referring to the top guys that flew in from around the world.August 12, 2014 at 8:58 pm #31905
Jimmy, it was really aimed at you either, I don’t know many of the west coast people. I just see far to often what I think happens too much, especially with kids, is the thinking their on their way to NASCAR. That does happen, but not often and sometimes there those parents that are far more aggressive on that road then their actual experience level.
I don’t often bring up the things I did in the last post, but I think many/most don’t really understand that until it hits close to home. I hope they don’t have to go through that.
Both Danica and Ryan Hunter Reay are stars now They are both mid 30’s and both were racing karts in Man Cup and MWSS when they were 12 along with my two kids. One of mine is doing well in Pro Snowmobiles. Today everyones in a hurry, thinks this comes in 5-10 years. These guys have all been racing for 25 years or more. You can buy some knowledge, but you really can’t buy experience, only time gives you that
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