Home Forums General Karting Discussion EDM process on Cylinders

This topic contains 17 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Dan Schlosser 3 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #31868

    patrick j slattery
    Participant

    For the last two years I have been hearing this is being done by some engine builders to achieve a 360 to 380 blow down on Yamaha cylinders.  Don’t know if it is true and wonder why if it is being done why no official can detect it, or is it just one of those rumors with no fact behind it.   Seems like when someone is fast, that is the first thing we hear is that he has one of those low blowdown motor.

    Any thought on this

     

    Pat Slattery

     

    #31877

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    It’s just hot air from people that don’t understand engines.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #31890

    patrick j slattery
    Participant

    Possibly,  but I know creditable people that have seen 380 to 360 blow down on Yamaha cylinders.

    #31907

    John Kuntze
    Participant

    It’s being done if you walk in the shop and ask for it the shop will deny doing it.

    #31962

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    How do you know it’s being done then?

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #31966

    Dan Schlosser
    Participant

    Simple rules change fixes this and eliminates $3000 Yamahas…..

     

    #32000

    Mike Burrell
    Participant

    Lol! I wrote an article on this in National Kart News a few years ago & created a pretty big poop storm… Yes, it happens. And the EDM expert I talked to showed me a chart with different ‘textures’ he could cut too & assured me we could “hide” the EDM process rather easily.

    As Dan said, a simple rules change eliminates this… Simply say “blowdown has to be between X & Y and we (sanctioning body) don’t care how you get it there.”

    Research I did shows machining a cylinder would add $150 to the blueprinting costs and eliminate the need for EDM and/or the “pot luck” or search for a “national cylinder” ( adding $600-1500 more in costs). Also, I never remember “blowdown” being an issue with the old open Pipe engines…

    So to answer the initial question: yes some people do/did EDM cylinders and yes it makes a significant difference on Supercan motors.

     

    #32026

    John Kuntze
    Participant

    If you are in the right circle you can get your motor EDM’d you just can’t be someone walking off the street and expect to get it done. If you don’t believe it’s happening you are only fooling yourself.

    #32312

    kenny lawson
    Participant

    Hence, the claiming rule? Or do we really need to go back to that just to stop this measure?

    #32313

    Jim Howe
    Participant

    As one of the lower-buck teams, I absolutely endorse Mike’s idea that blowdown becomes just another “spec” for engine builders. Though it would add some cost to my engine bill, it would be minimal — $300 to $600 more, according to my engine builder — and at least would put me on equal footing with those big-buck teams.

    #32327

    Troy Berry
    Participant

    Holy smokes, three to six hundred for blowdown? You should be able to get that much cheaper when you come to the great state of Nevada for the Supernats! (sorry, couldn’t help myself, too easy. Lol)

    "The Art is in the details"
    BirelArt AM29 LO206
    Intrepid Cruiser LO 206

    #32336

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    If they come up with a new tech rule they should allow any surface finish so Joe plumber can do it with a file for free.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #32337

    Mike Burrell
    Participant

    You’re exactly right Walt. “Here’s a number, get there how you want!”

    #32345

    Dan Schlosser
    Participant

    We either have, or manage programs that have, very strong hand picked “national caliber” engines that surely meet the blowdown numbers. Despite devaluing what we own or manage, we wholeheartedly support the move to an acceptable range without the need to disguise the work.

    Sometimes you have to be willing to sacrifice a little personally for the long term good of the sport.

     

     

    #32347

    Tom Varner
    Participant

    WKA allows Cadet Chassis in Yamaha JR Sportsman in Man Cup – costs everyone money – Why?

    WKA allows new tires both days in Man Cup – more money

    USPKS goes from 6″ to 7″ rear wheels for Yamaha JR – costs everyone money -Why?

    At least USPKS requires that the same tire is run both days

    WKA and USPKS won’t allow EDM to save everyone money – Why ?

    Driving the little teams out – look at the recent kart counts at USPKS and WKA –

    Who are these series really for ?

    #32348

    Tom Varner
    Participant

    BTY – when WKA added Cadet Chassis to Yamaha Jr Sportsman – the Competition Committee voted against it – WKA leadership did it anyway –

    follow the money !!!

    #32367

    patrick j slattery
    Participant

    I can verify what Tom said about the Cadet kart.  How is the Cadet class going in WKA now.  🙂

    Tom, it is my understanding that WKA is going to require Jr classes to run 7:10 rears next year also,  which will put another nice bill to the karters, not to mention what are you going to do with your wheels for the 6:00 tires.

     

    The problem I see with EDM is some engine builders try to play by the rules and are very protective about there reputation as to building illegal engines and only want to build motors that are 100 percent legal.  When you build an engine and if they are using EDM to enhance the performance, regardless that it can’t be seen it is still illegal, but the honest engine builder and his customers are the one’s who pay the price.

    We saw this a few years ago when some were cutting the pistons, it was illegal but it hurt the honest engine builders.  I hope we don’t go down that road again

     

    #32705

    Dan Schlosser
    Participant

    We are already there Pat. The fix is easy – I have yet to hear a single compelling argument to why the rules are not changed. If I’m missing something, someone please enlighten me.

     

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