Home Forums Road Racing C.E.S. 2014

This topic contains 38 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  James McMahon 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #15773

    Peter Zambos
    Participant

    Good morning, racers.

    For those in the Midwest who have not yet heard, the tentative schedule for the 2014 Championship Enduro Series is out.  If you’re like me, you might need to get that time off scheduled sooner than later.  So:

    May-31-June-1 Blackhawk Farms Raceway

    July-12-13 Grattan Raceway

    August-9-10 Blackhawk Farms Raceway

    September-13-14 Gingerman Raceway

    You can also view it at the website here.

    Additionally, the PDF is here.

    Also, there are plenty of opportunity for sponsors for 2014.  Want to get the word out on your business or service or just want to show your support for one of strongest regional road racing series in the county?  Now is the time.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    #15774

    Dennis Chappell
    Participant

    Peter

    Dates are marked on calendar and can’t wait for another fun year with this series. If anyone has not run this series you must try it.

    Dennis

    #15783

    Mike Arnold
    Participant

    Any races planned for gateway?

     

    Mike

    #15857

    Jeff Salak
    Participant

    Mike, dont think the turnout was good enough last year to keep Gateway on the schedule. People came for Sat race, then vanished and packed up for Sunday. Maybe cause of Mothers Day. Not sure if a different weekend would help. But we wont know that answer this year

    #15865

    Mike Arnold
    Participant

    Jeff,

    Thanks!

    Considering the Blackhawk race in late May.  Is there a Stock Honda class and if so what would the gearing be for this track?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Mike

    #15867

    Jeff Salak
    Participant

    Im a Tag guy.
    Shifter classes have large/sometimes huge fields at Blackhawk.
    Come on out you will have a great time racing and hanging out after the races.
    They have a stock honda class.

    #15878

    James McMahon
    Participant

    Gateway isnt happening this year, probably not in the near future. Expensive to rent and feedback from drivers that stayed this year was mixed.

    CES has Two main shifter classes. CIK125 and G125.  There’s rarely less than 25 shifters on the grid, at blackhawk in August last year we had almost 50.

    In CIK 125, Stock Honda’s can run at 375lbs, all others (ICC, KZ Mod) run at 385. Open tires. Run what you like, in a 30min race softies aren’t gonna last :)
    The G125 class is for older, more “statured” drivers. 420lbs for all motor packages, 30 years plus. Tires are same as CIK.
    IIRC gearing for a stocker at Blackhawk is 18:22/18:23

    Stock Honda as a separate class was dropped for ’13 onwards due to lack of interest. If enough drivers got together and regularly turned up, I’m sure that would change. In any case the stockers have no issues getting up to the front of the field.

    #15940

    Chad Landers
    Participant

    I really like Gateway.  I think the timing for the event last year was bad though.  Being Mother’s Day and all.  That placed used to get good turnouts when we had decent weekends.

    What happened to the Milwaukee Mile? I’d kind of like to go back.  It is centrally located for most of our driver base.

    Did we all just decide is wasn’t karting friendly?  I know some of the entries on and off the oval were sketchy, but what if we got some of new style safety barriers that we didn’t have back then.

    I should be at both of the Blackhawk races. But not looking too likely on the Michigan ones.

    #15970

    Peter Zambos
    Participant

    Sadly, running on the infields of ovals will, more than likely, be out for a while still.  Now, I speak in an entirely unofficially capacity (btw, I always do, as I’m only a participant), but the primary reasons we don’t run at such facilities anymore are cost and safety.

    My understanding is that these places charge quite a bit for their tracks.  As our numbers aren’t what they used to be, we can’t really afford to have the series continue to take another hit in the financial berries.  If we’re able to ever get those numbers back up again, maybe, just maybe we might see them come back.  The same goes for Joliet.  I’m sure if we had numbers like we did in the late 90s, that track might’ve been on the calendar for more than one year.

    Concrete walls hurt.  There are a few of us that have become more intimate than we ever planned with concrete walls, and, as a result, there are some reservations when we go to speedways.  Chad, I don’t know the exact reason why we don’t go to Milwaukee, but the Mile is a venue at which a few of us had a rather disagreeable meeting between karter and wall, one of which ending with a long hospital stay.  The transition between infield and oval was never really smooth there, and that transition had a habit of launching karts directly at the wall if taken just so.  I really liked the Mile as well, mostly because of the good, close racing I had there, but also because it often fell on the same weekend as the Harvest Fest.  After you wipe the grease off your self (or not), you could walk through the tunnel and  replace that wrench in your hand with an elephant ear and a microbrew.  Heaven.
    If we ever can get back there, I’ll volunteer to bring a bag of sacrerte and a shovel and finally fix that thing myself.

    Cheers,
    Peter

    #15971

    Mike Arnold
    Participant

    James,

     

    Thanks for the gearing advise.  I hope we can make it !

     

    Mike

    #16002

    Jeff Salak
    Participant

    Well said Peter.
    Im very happy with the tracks CES race on. Happy that we dont race at tracks with lots of concrete anymore. Those tracks are designed for cars/safety for spectators. Not karts to run into any problems.

    Also happy we dont run on some of the tracks KART MARS races on. Those temp road courses that they race on are just plain nuts!

    Chad you should try and make Grattan. Its the most fun track period!

    #16004

    Kelly Read
    Participant

    Jeff,

       I question your satement about the tracks KART/MARRS races on.  You saying that the tracks (2) listed above that CES races at are 100% safe??  NOT

    People seem to want to blame the track when something bad happens when a lot of the time it gets down to the DRIVER!!   If the drivers doesn’t RESPECT the track or the racers they are racing with, bad things can happen, correct?? So why blame the track????

    Unless you can find a track out in a middle of a field with nothing within 1000′ of the racing surface, there is a potential that someone could hit something. Even with this, you still have the potential for incidents rather it is someone getting on there head from a roll over from sliding out into the grass or contact by another kart.

    KART/MARRS has 2 tracks that are called “Temporary” courses that are raced 2 times a year per track (4 races) and 3 others what they call “REAL” tracks. Both the “TEMP” tracks have raced 50+ years for GO-KART racing and have a pretty good safety record.

    What it gets down to is, if we all want to road race then there are possibly some tracks that we just can not race as hard on as other tracks and the drivers must respect that particular track. The bright side is KART/MARRS has a 8 race series, how many other groups can say this?? These “TEMP” courses helps KART/MARRS keep the cost down and helps pay for other track costs. I’m happy to be able to race 8 times a year not counting going east 1-2 times a year.

     

    #16005

    Keith Bridgeman
    Participant

    It would by nice to see CES and KART have a joint race or two.  The KART tracks are actually closer to MN for me then going to MI.

    #16021

    Peter Zambos
    Participant

    Jeff, Kelly, I actually see both of your perspectives. Though I did mention that uneven transition at the mile, I didn’t see that type of facility as being inherently unsafe. In fact, if one wanted to measure the distance from the racing line to the wall, there would be less distance at GingerMan than at Gateway at their respective last turns. On the other hand, at permanent road courses, there is typically something that slows the progress of the kart before the wall, making it more accommodating to the exposed nature of the kart driver.

    So, as a result, I do somewhat agree that a track and it’s limitations must be respected. However, some accommodations can be made so that when the almost inevitable crash happens, the resulting injury is not as great.

    Let me also state this: Kelly, the two facilities at which KART/MARRS and C.E.S. held joint ventures, Gateway and Iowa, the accidents resulting in injury there were indeed not directly a result of the track and at no point did I ever feel we were competing under unsafe conditions at those tracks. Kelly, you and KART/MARRS have, by my observations, always acted in the best interest of the karter.

    As a participant, I would welcome the idea of our two organizations holding future joint events, as long as there is a good mid-way point for the vast majority of our members. In fact, it’s a pipe dream of mine to have a Midwest karting event that would bring together KART/MARRS, C.E.S. and MKC for something that would be like the S.C.C.A. runoffs. Even better if there was no involvement of the WKA.

    A middle-aged boy can dream.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    #16029

    Chad Landers
    Participant

    Jeff,  I love Grattan, but it is very long haul for me.  Going down around Chicago an then back up.  Plus I have a hard time getting enough days off in a row to go that far. I’ve looked into taking the ferry across, but they charge so much with a trailer.

    I may try and hook up with Scott in Fondy and carpool over.  But not having all my parts and tools would kind of suck.  I know we could all share stuff and we all wouldn’t care either way. We are all just helpful like that.  I’d like to at least try it once.

    My plan is to make both Blackhawk races for sure.  Might try a Michigan one if time allows.  But I’m actually looking forward to the dreaded dirt roundy round kart I bough this summer.  I’ve got 3 tracks within an hour and half of me.

    #16038

    Jeff Salak
    Participant

    Not for me!
    Sorry Kelly, nothing against you guys. I just wouldnt race on this track for the life of me. I would come race with you guys if you let Rotax race with the leopards and ran a regular Tag class.

    Chad I live Wi/Il border 15 min from 94. We could car pool if you came to my house and go from there. No problem with that.

    #16039

    Peter Zambos
    Participant

    Hmm.  Okay, I hadn’t seen Lake Garnett before.  I hold the same position, Jeff, I don’t think I could run that track with some of the obstacles that lie just off course.

    #16109

    Glen Luening
    Participant

    Lake Garnett looks a little iffy. But that being said Kart and Marrs have a great group. some of the other tracks are very nice. Guys lets face it if we don’t start to find more places to run and more competitors, karting is going to fade away. CES guys don’t think that everything is so perfect. We are in trouble if we don’t start to run with other groups to get more entries. Lets face it the cost of track rentals is going up and up. CES is a great group but we need to do something or we will not be around in a the years to come. It sure is nice to only have to drive an hour to a race but not going to last. My suggestion is to do away with Gingerman, since no one really seem to care to the joint but a few, and run with Dart, Kart, Mkc someone, possibly at Mid Ohio or some other course they run.

    I almost went to the race in Topeka this year and the only that keep me from going was the lack of a heavy shifter class. My fat a$$ can’t compete with the CIK youngsters and light weights. But maybe next year.

    #16113

    Kelly Read
    Participant

    Peter,

    KART & CES didn’t have a joint race at Iowa. We was suppose to but I’m not going to say on here why it didn’t happen but I can say that it wasn”t due to KART/MARRS. I did take the kids to Iowa for the CES event they had before the joint event that we were going to have to see what the track was like, gearing, etc to bring back to our racers for when we did go back for the joint event.  Brad ran a Tag for Russells and Lindsay ran her Sprint PP kart. Fun track for a sprinter but not for a laydown. As the kids said, kinda harry going into infield off the oval and was spooky when you got close or hit the alligators in the turns in the infield with the direction they ran (clockwise). NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!!

    As for joint races. One who was a big part when we had joint races with MKC (when Cole was in charge) then Davey with CES at Gateway and Milwakee and when we went to Road America with BKC for 3 years,  our group had a blast. Can it happen again, SURE!! Issue would be to find the right track (midway if possible), right date (not interfer with other race dates), right people promoting  AND, racers supporting it. When I say support by the racers, I mean being there both days. When racers run only one day and head home on Sunday, that HURTS !!!!

    Tracks like Garnett may not be the best but, it does give us an opputunity to race 7-8 times a year in our area. I myself have been there racing since 1972 and I will say, things have changed since back then at that track. We used to not have the chicane at the end of the back straight leading to the spillway along with some areas didn’t have the barriers they do today.  Back then we had no bodywork and all classes were way larger then any of us see today.  Bottom line, all tracks have something that some racers just won’t attend and I truely understand that.

    What us road racers do need to do is, SUPPORT any events we can or RR will be gone some day!!!

     

    Glen,

    Take it you are talking of a G125 class?? FYI, I got a group talking of coming to Hastings and Heartland park Topeka  from MI and if so, we plan to add this class. KART/MARRS is always willing to add classes if the class is supported at any of there events. Just a call, e-mail, etc can make this happen.

    We all need some type organization but without the racers, we don’t need them!!!

    #16231

    Brian Wilhelm
    Participant

    Garnett and Afton are simply no more dangerous than the “rovals”. Why??? If I get out of shape and go off, I can maybe miss a tree, culvert, etc., but there is no way I can miss a wall.

    #16248

    Mike Hoff
    Participant

     

    Great to see CES and others with their schedules out, which makes it easier to plan the year and schedule vacations.

    As mentioned, we all need to support road racing courses or they won’t be around.  The one I miss the most is Road America when hosted by Badger with close to 1000 entrants.  Doubt we will ever go back and that is a shame for those who never got a chance to race on it.

    My dad and I have raced with CES and last few years with KART/MARRS.  BlackHawk is one of my favorites.

    Don’t judge Afton and Garnett too quickly or from the videos.  The first time we saw the tracks (drove around in our truck) we thought OMG how do they race here.  After racing on them, had a different perspective…still need to respect the track, speeds we carry, fellow racers, and most importantly have fun.

    Brian, I never thought about the “missing a tree” aspect until I saw Kelly do just that a year or so ago.

    Thanks

    Mike

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #16282

    James McMahon
    Participant

    I think it’s time to discuss a big midwest event…. For venue I’d suggest Autobahn. Although its expensive to rent, it is located nicely, has good facilities, nice wide track. All of these lend themselves to hosting a good road race event. Blackhawk while awesome to drive, for a big once-off I feel we can safely get more karts out at once at Autobahn.

    It’s early days yet, but our group are talking about possibly running Hastings and Topeka in ’14. We’ve been wanted to do Topeka for some time.

    My opinion is that entries are spread too thin up in these parts. I’d rather see less events and have bigger ones, but its up to us as drivers to vote with our feet.

    #16313

    Peter Zambos
    Participant

    I wouldn’t mind one bit!  I wouldn’t even have to get a hotel room.
    If this were to ever happen, I would petition for us to race on the south course.  When we had our one event there we utilized the north course.  Though the racing was great, it had all to do with the depth of field in the TAG class and was in spite of the very simple layout of the north course.  The south course looks like more fun.
    Before anyone says, “hey let’s run the combined track,” we can’t.  The Autobahn is required to have at least one of the courses open to it’s members at all times.  At least, that was the case last time I cared to inquire.

    As to less, but bigger events, well, we have one part of that equation for next year.

    #16371

    Glen Luening
    Participant

    I could not agree more with that James and Peter. I would say lets not do the Gingerman race (since it is always a bust anyway), and maybe get some talking going on with Kelly and his group. Lets get a combined race happening somewhere. Maybe we could run Autobahn, Memphis or even Putnam. But the bottom line is we need more entries for all the clubs or we will all loose out.

    Us as club members need to speak our voices to those that run the club. After all this is a business and to have a race that consistently looses money is bad business.

     

    Just my two and a half cents worth.

    #16386

    George Argiris
    Participant

    The issues are not that we don’t have the tracks and the clubs – we just need people to show up and especially stay on Sunday…..

    Guys – each club or area has enough out there, we just need to make sure we all show-up..

    Glen – DART has two races in this region each year – Grattan and Mid Ohio – Grattan in May and Mid Ohio in June – Those who say they are drivers need to prove it and show up to Grattan – this is the most true drivers road course in the area.   They re-paved the entire track a few years ago and I was told they were going to get new bathroom and showers in 2014 –  Mid Ohio is awesome – there are always a great turnout, DART does a great job, there are motorcycle races on Sat night to watch and camping is available  – they pulled from Putnum cause nobody showed up and the costs were high –   CES has tried about everything possible – the unfortunate timing on Gateway and the lack of people staying on Sunday hurt –  CES offers races at tracks that both DART and KART/MARRS can join – CES offer a race at Grattan and Gingerman  – both tracks make it easy to both DART members and Michigan Kart Club members – Gingerman is an awesome track – why take away a track – Autobauhn is a good idea but it is not any closer to Blackhawk or Gingerman for the MARRS guys…and the costs are more.  The only fair share for MARRS and CES was Gateway but the timing in my opinion was not planned well….  But yet again where were the MARRS guys on Sat and why did everyone leave on Sunday..   I’m not trying to bash anyone but it is all up to us to show up and support – the CES gang has always been willing to travel – thou those park district tracks in Kansas – in my opinion do not look safe enough for the racing I’ve done for the past years…   it is awesome though that it is a good boost to there club and they get the support.  Although the Topeka event is appealing – however in my case and many others, we cant race there as you don’t allow Rotax – you are missing many including a large shifter group..  Hey Hoff you talk about CES but you have not shown up for the past 3 years or more – why – sorry I had to throw a gab……

    Its all about making sure we can road race so put all the BS asside –

    BLACKHAWK – BLACKHAWK – that’s all I can say – your an @$%# if you don’t show up…. CES offers 2 chances to race there in a year – Schedules are out so start planning and gathering others to join.

    So the long and short is SHOW UP AND STAY THE WEEKEND AND GO VISIT NEW TRACKS – THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WILLING TO SHARE RIDES – SUPPORT ALL THE RACES THAT ARE OFFERED – SUPPORT ALL CLUBS

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