This topic contains 18 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Walt Gifford 1 year, 3 months ago.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
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  • #49301

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Did you ever think about putting a small amount of 1200 aluminum oxide grit in a new LO206 to polish and loosen it up?

    The grit breaks down into smaller and smaller particles and can eventually be flushed out with cleaning solution.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #49305

    Ted Hamilton
    Participant

    An “engine builder” I used to know ran his motors on dirt with no air filter for a while to try to accomplish the same thing…   YMMV…lol

    www.facebook.com/hamiltonhelmets/
    2014 Praga Dragon / IAME KA-100

    #49408

    Bernie Lacotta
    Participant

    You guys are talking foolishly. What you are looking for is something that does not exist. The only thing faster you will find with such nonsense is shorter engine life. Cripes !!!!

    #49412

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Is it foolish or is it so genius that it just blew your mind.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #49422

    Bernie Lacotta
    Participant

    Foolish

    #49427

    Benn Herr
    Participant

    Best way to “loosen” up a LO206 (or any OHV Briggs engine) is to drive it more. Get out there and run a million laps, have your buddies drive, let new people try it out. Don’t worry, the engine can take it. These ain’t no sloppy-loose flatheads anymore!

    #49428

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    That’s allot of money for track time. Why do all that, one treatment to polish it up then flush with the next oil change and the motor’s as free as one that ran all last year only better because it’s polished and the rings seat in better too.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #49430

    Bernie Lacotta
    Participant

    Best way to be fast in a LO206 ( or anything for that matter ) is seat time. Best way to spend money in karting.

    I regard posts offering BS ways to make things “better” the equal to falsely shouting “fire” in a theater. This causes racers new to the sport to think they are getting bankrolled to last place on the grid rather than realizing seat time is the key to better their performance. There is always the guy “with the answer”  for those that feel they can buy their way to the front. It especially infuriates me when discussed in the LO206 forums. There is no magic diet pill!!!

    Only “magic dust” I ever heard of that was effective was in the hands of Cheech & Chong !!

    #49431

    Ted Hamilton
    Participant

    Oh believe me, I didn’t buy engines from said “builder”…  However, didn’t BMW use iron oxide for break-in via water baths of the cylinder liner or something like that?  Seems like I read about it and decided, “not in mine!”

    Extrudehone, on the other hand, might be worth the $$…

    www.facebook.com/hamiltonhelmets/
    2014 Praga Dragon / IAME KA-100

    #49458

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    Basically it’s always BS when someone else thinks of it first LOL. I guaranty there are people secretly trying this on dynos with old animal engines as we speak. I know one engine manufacture that is doing this with 2 strokes using something called Lux drops. Leaving off the air filter and letting huge chunks of random grit in the top end is worlds away from what I’m suggesting. 1200 grit may be too aggressive but there are products that are finer grit and break down faster. After 41 years of kart racing I think I have enough track time, I’m ready for more motor.

    Gif

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #49462

    Bernie Lacotta
    Participant

    Walt, no doubt people try stuff in secret. Great, keep it a secret and don’t spread BS thoughts that are meaningless. I guarantee people trying this are wasting time, money, and effort, yet this concept will give people thinking of entering the sport reason to doubt their ability due to these far out ego building statements.

    I’m not a certified jet engine and aircraft tech, people who know me are aware of my knowledge and ability. I’ve been around racing my entire adult life and an blessed to know some great engine minds. ( I’m 68 ) I know BS when I see it! Don’t mean this to be a personal attack in any way, just trying to keep grassroots racing growing. Comments such as yours belongs in the clone trick of the week, something for nothing category.

    #49481

    James Frantz
    Participant

    How are you going to know how much of this dirt you need to put in the engine? A little bit is good?? A lot more must be better??? How are you going to make sure it wears the cylinder evenly? Top and bottom? Thrust sides and the other sides.

    #49547

    Chris Hatch
    Participant

    First off, most engine builders would likely tell you that the cylinder to piston clearance is much larger in a stock engine than what we use when we can build from scratch.  Why do I want a looser fit?  It would seem what you’re really looking for is less ring tension.  However, by this grit method, you would achieve less resistance by loosing ring seal.  Not good.  Compression is king on these engines.

    Speaking of compression, what kind of damage will you be doing to the valve seats as the grit is smashed into the seat by the valves resulting in serious pitting.  You may be able to cut/grind the seats enough to get rid of the pitting, although you might be surprised.  Again, the minimal gain you might get will be offset by the loss of valve seal = Not good.

    #49552

    David Meade
    Participant

    Anyone that would suggest running them in the dirt has never taken apart a utility engine used on a cement mixer, tiller, etc. apart. The grit going in with the intake acts just like a sand blaster, literally hitting one side of the port, valve and cylinder and etching it deeply. Putting this in the oil is also counter productive, there are many parts you do not want abraded.

    Loose LO206 engines work well but new out of the box show the best.

     

    #50664

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    You guys don’t get it. You’re comparing this to leaving the air filter off on a dirt road or dumping an ounce of valve grinding compound in the case. Have you ever worked with 1200 or finer grit? I’m talking about an amount that would fit on the tip of a small screw driver for one track session. That’s almost parody compared to the slurry of metal particles floating around in oil first time out.

    I’ve watched innovation slowly die in karting but I never thought people would vehemently oppose it. I guess the big innovation is coming up with an engine that you can’t innovate. Guess I won’t tell you how I get Devcon liquid steel on the cam lobes and how many laps it will last. Peace.

    Gif

    P.S. btw Bernie there’s been allot of guys that had nothing to say when they found out my BS ideas weren’t nothing but the truth. That’s one reason you have sealed engines and allot of rules to give people without ideas a chance.

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

    #50683

    Bernie Lacotta
    Participant

    WOW !

    #50696

    Benn Herr
    Participant

    Walt,

    The LO206 classes (as well as World Formula) were made for people that don’t want to do the kind of things you’re talking about. They want an appliance. Something you bolt on and nearly ignore. Whether it’s because you a newby with enough to learn already or a more experienced karter who just wants to step back from the “bleeding edge” of constant research, testing and upgrades.
    If that is the kind of thing you want to do the regular Stock and Modified classes are what you want. The class is designed to be a “change the oil and adjust the chain” only class. To do those kinds of things in a class like LO206 is just plain cheating even if it doesn’t help.

    #50704

    Frank Cire
    Participant

    You don’t need to add grit then flush it out, just use this:

    http://www.newmantools.com/lapping/time.htm

    Just add it to the oil and then forget it.  Innovation within the spirit of the rules, everyone is happy!

    #71150

    Walt Gifford
    Participant

    You don’t need to add grit then flush it out, just use this:

    http://www.newmantools.com/lapping/time.htm

    Just add it to the oil and then forget it. Innovation within the spirit of the rules, everyone is happy!

    Well I’ll be dammed somebody else thought of it first.

    GIF

    FAA certified jet engine and aircraft technician,
    Nicholson Speedway class champion 2001,
    Yamaha KT100 Service Center,
    41 years karting experience

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